I've Messed Up My Body: How Do I Move Forward? With Dr. Michelle Bengtson [Podcast Transcript]

Title: I've Messed Up My Body: How Do I Move Forward? With Dr. Michelle Bengtson

Podcast Date: June 4, 2024

Listen Here: 

Description

Today Heather talks to her friend, neuropsychologist and author, Dr. Michelle Bengtson about how we can move forward after we feel like we've done things (or had things done to us) that have caused hurt or damage to our bodies. With grace and compassion, Heather and Michelle talk about how God wants to use our scars for our good and His glory. Dr. Michelle offers tangible and practical ways to move forward in grace and healing, including the recommendation that you find someone to walk with you who has had a similar journey and can understand both your wounds and scars. They talk about the realities that some things we have done to our bodies -- via eating disorders or an unhealthy relationship with food -- may have left a visible mark, but God is not upset by or afraid to use that.

Heather and Michelle explore how to get past the shame, how to get past the condemnation, and how to let God turn those scars into something beautiful. 

Learn more about Dr. Michelle Bengtson's brand new book, Sacred Scars: Resting in God's Promise That Your Past is Not Wasted. (Amazon affiliate link)

Learn more about Heather's book, the 40-Day Body Image Workbook.

Learn more about Dr. Michelle Bengtson and all of her books here: https://www.drmichelleb.com

Heather's other episodes featuring Dr. Michelle Bengtson include:

Finding Hope in Pain and Suffering: https://omny.fm/shows/compared-to-who/finding-hope-in-suffering-pain-featuring-dr-michel

Identity, Depression, and Anxiety: https://omny.fm/shows/compared-to-who/identity-depression-anxiety-how-to-find-freedom-wi

OCD, Narcissism, Eating Disorders, and Body Image: https://omny.fm/shows/compared-to-who/ocd-narcissism-eating-disorders-body-image

Outline

00:00 Revisiting Last Week’s Conversation with Michelle Bengtson

04:31 Wounds vs. Scars

10:28 Hiding Physical Scars, Fear of Rejection, & Isolation

14:08 Embracing Scars To Help Others Heal

19:44 Embracing Scars To Help Yourself Heal

23:54 Lessons From Jeremiah on Facing Uncertainty and Opposition

26:40 Dealing With Secondary Pain

29:25 Wounds and Scars Strengthen Our Faith and Trust in God

34:16 Suffering Equips For Unique Ministry

37:35 “Resting in God’s Promise That Your Past is Not Wasted”

40:35 God’s Redemptive Economy Refreshes and Encourages

42:53 Connect With Dr. Michelle B

Revisiting Last Week’s Conversation with Michelle Bengtson

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:00:04]:

I would first ask a question. In your pain, from body image issues or from trying to be perfect, to be lovable, to be accepted? What did you really need most?

Heather Creekmore [00:00:23]:

Oh, friend, today, I'm talking to my friend, neuropsychologist and author, doctor Michelle Bengtson, and we are continuing the conversation we started last week. Have I ruined my body? Have I messed up my body? I know God made my body good, but have I messed it up? 

And today, we take kind of a different look at that same question by talking about our scars. Our wounds have led to scars. And what do we do with those scars? How does God use those scars? Should we hide our scars from shame? Do we put our scars out there for the whole world to see? How do we move forward once we have felt our brokenness, felt God's healing for our brokenness, but then what? That's where we're going today. I'm glad you're here for it. Hey. Grab the 40 Day Body Image Workbook. It's gonna help you this summer. If you don't have a copy already, go grab it wherever books are sold. Let's get to today's interview. Doctor Michelle, thanks so much for being on the Compared To Who show today.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:02:11]:

Oh, Heather, it's always like coming home when you and I get together, we don't live that far away from each other, so we really need to do this in person a couple times.

Heather Creekmore [00:02:21]:

We should. We should. Well, it's really, you know, God's timing is always perfect. And I've been wrestling with this question that so many of my coaching clients and, you know, listeners have brought up. What do I do if I feel like I've ruined my body? Right? And it's broad because for some of my listeners, they feel like they've ruined their body through what they did, you know, with eating disorders and, you know, either restriction or purging and the effect that has on the body. Like, there's a variety of ways that can look. And then for other listeners, it's remorse over, you know, just a relationship with food that wasn't necessarily the best for their body.

Heather Creekmore [00:03:12]:

They have not had a relationship with food that was healthy. And in both cases, I have women saying, okay, now, like, where do I go next? And so I addressed that in the last episode. But I'm so glad you're here because well, first of all, like I said in your intro, I mean, like, you're a neuro psy- is it psychologist or psychiatrist? Why do I always forget that? 

Dr. Michelle Bengtson:

Neuropsychologist. 

Heather Creekmore:

Psychologist. I'm not sure the difference between a neuropsychologist and neuropsychiatrist, but, you know, our listeners can go look that up if they're curious. So you have an area of expertise around this, from a medical standpoint. 

But then also, I mean, you've written so many books, and your latest book really digs into this concept of scars and how God wants to use them. So I'm excited that you're here today to kinda help us continue this conversation. It’s like, what now? Like, I've recognized what's happened, but what do I do next? So let's start though at the beginning because I think there's some confusion. Like, a lot of us talk about wounds, and then we talk about scars. Like, what's the difference there?

Wounds vs. Scars

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:04:31]:

A wound is an open, unhealed injury. Now that could be physical, but for so many people that I talk to, they may not have physical wounds, but they have emotional wounds, or they have relational wounds, severed relationships, or betrayal, or spiritual wounds that have caused some kind of nick or separation in their walk with God. Maybe they're doubting their faith. So the wound is unhealed, and it's painful. Painful. And when we don't get healing, then additional things can happen and kinda rip the beginner layer of healing tissue. The scab, if you will. Will rip it off, and it brings back the healing again.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:05:27]:

But once we've walked the journey to heal those wounds, we're left with scars. Now early on, I had lots of scars in all those areas. So just so that your listeners understand, I'm not talking as just the doctor. No. I've gone through some painful stuff physically, emotionally, relationally, spiritually. And I'm left now, now that I've gotten some healing, with scars. 

But my original perception of these scars, especially my physical ones that people can see, was “Oh my gosh. Those are so ugly. What will people think if they see these scars? How can God love me? Because scripture says I am fearfully and wonderfully made, and yet he didn't make me with these scars. These scars happened after he made me - what does that say about God? What does that say about me?” And so I looked at those scars with disdain.

Heather Creekmore [00:06:33]:

Mhmm.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:06:35]:

Until God took me on a journey. And it was during Easter time a couple years ago when I was reading through the crucifixion story where Jesus is beaten, battered. He's gone through the most horrific, painful death you could ever experience. The wounds left him to a point that he was unrecognizable. And in my mind, this was faulty theology so just so all of you know, faulty theology. Scripture does say that when we get to heaven, we will have a new and glorified body, and I'm all excited about that because I don't want the same body that I've been living in. Well, I thought that meant Jesus too.

Heather Creekmore [00:07:18]:

Mhmm.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:07:19]:

Because Jesus died and rose, went to heaven. But when he presented himself to his disciples, specifically Thomas, he still had the scars in his hands and his feet where he was nailed to the cross. And I was like, Lord, what is up with that? Like, I thought Jesus would be back with a perfect body. And God showed me. 

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:07:46]:

No, no, no, no, no. He needed those scars so he could prove he was who he said he was and that he did what he said he would do. Those scars are a beautiful representation of the healing that took place when he went to heaven. And he defeated death. And Heather, that was like a light bulb moment for me because I was “wait a minute, my scars can be beautiful?  How's that so?”

Heather Creekmore [00:08:20]:

Right. Or maybe to put that another way, my scars aren't something I'm supposed to be ashamed of. Right? And so thinking about my friends that have walked through eating disorders and maybe have teeth that show that. Or extra skin that shows that. Right? Like, the shame that you feel around those visible scars on your body? Like, how do you counsel someone on that? How do you encourage someone who feels shame around the scars?

Hiding Physical Scars, Fear of Rejection, & Isolation

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:09:03]:

The most important thing to recognize in order to be able to heal from that is that shame is never, never, never, never from your heavenly father. Shame is a lie from the pit of hell. Shame communicates you are a mistake when the truth is, we make mistakes, and God has provided a way for us to be forgiven. But in the examples that you've provided, maybe there's been some binging and purging or maybe there's been restrictive dieting or or maybe there's been a whole lot of weight loss and it's left the extra skin. 

It's a matter of slowing down and thinking, what am I thinking about myself right now? Because shame usually has lies associated with it. You're so ugly. You are a failure. You're not perfect. People will reject you. People will abandon you. Those are all lies that the enemy uses to prompt fear and isolation.

Heather Creekmore [00:10:27]:

Mhmm.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:10:28]:

And I can relate to that from the physical scars. I tried to hide them for decades because I was afraid that I would be rejected even as an adult, like I was on that elementary school playground, because I was different. And then I isolate because that's how I protect myself from further rejection is I say, “I'm not going to give you a chance to reject me”. So that's the first thing is slowing down and thinking, what am I saying to myself? What am I thinking about myself? And is that consistent with what God says about me? I'm so grateful for the scripture that says there is therefore now no condemnation for those of us who are in Christ Jesus. And that's a lot of kinda “Christianese”, if you will.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:11:30]:

I mean, it's straight from the Bible. But what does that mean practically? It means that God is not looking at you and thinking, well, you really messed up this time. I don't know what we're gonna do about this. Or nope. You're no longer the apple of my eye because you've marred your body in some way. No, no, no.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:11:48]:

No. No condemnation means He looks at you and goes, “oh, sweet child. Would you just hold my hand and would you sit down with me so I can tell you just how wonderful you are, how much I love you, how much that those mistakes don't define you? They offer an opportunity for us to have a conversation. But the shame leads you to hide from me, and I'm asking because I don't condemn you. Will you just hold my hand? Let's talk about this for a while because I've got healing for you.” And from that healing, you'll end up with some beautiful scars and a story to tell.

Heather Creekmore [00:12:35]:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that isolation, so the shame takes you to isolation. And then you're in a position where there is nothing to challenge the enemy's lies. Right? Well, the enemy says you won't be accepted when you don't go out. And so you assume you won't be accepted. Whereas if you just went out, you might realize, oh, no one's actually treating me any different. Right? I mean, you know, of course, there's variances to that story, but for the most part, that isolation just makes you putty in his hands where he can keep lying to you without those lies ever being challenged.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:13:07]:

But that's, Heather, that's the funny thing is his MO hasn't changed since the beginning of time. That's exactly what he did in the Garden of Eden. He separated Adam and Eve from God because they ate the fruit. And God was like “we were walking together until you listened to a different voice.” 

So if you have listeners who are thinking, yeah, well, I do. I do pull back because if I don't give people a chance to reject me, then I'm not gonna experience that pain. But one of the things that I've learned in my journey and my attempt all these years to hide my visible scars is that people aren't thinking about us nearly as much as we think we are.

Heather Creekmore [00:13:56]:

Right. Right. They're really not. Oh, they weren’t thinking about us!

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:14:00]:

They're so busy thinking about their own stuff. 

Embracing Scars To Help Others Heal

Heather Creekmore [00:14:08]:

Right. Right. Yeah. Well and, you know, thinking about, like, beauty that comes from scars. Right? I think that's, I think it's hard to swallow for some people because they feel, and we talked about this in the last episodes on this topic, but I think they feel a guilt and a remorse and we talked about how really there's only one cure for that, and it's not feeling more guilt and remorse. So I hope you'll go back and listen because I think they'll really help clarify some things. 

But so let's say you start walking with Jesus. And he's telling you that these scars are things he wants to use. Like, how do you jump that bridge, though, to go from, oh, my scars need to be hidden to, okay, God wants to use these scars. Where's the, you know, the first step of faith? I picture Indiana Jones when you can't see the path. And it looks like he's standing over that big, you know, like canyon crevice thing. And then he just takes that step of faith and you see, oh, there's a path. They sprinkle some dust on it. You see the path clearly. Like that first step of faith, what do you think that is?

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:15:24]:

I would first ask a question. That would be, in your pain from body image issues or from trying to be perfect, to be lovable, to be accepted, what did you really need? When I was going through the emotional pain of a major depressive episode, what I needed most was a nonjudgmental hand to hold from someone who understood because they had previously gone through it. And so when we talk about scars being beautiful, the beauty comes from things like, Heather, you being able to understand body image and having compassion for those you coach. 

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:16:28]:

But also having some insight and some wisdom because you fought the battle a little bit before they did. And compassion, tenderness, love, acceptance that you can offer someone else because you get it, because you've been there.

Heather Creekmore [00:16:55]:

Yeah.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:16:55]:

There’s something so beautiful that came from something so painful. Scripture in Genesis 50:20 says, what the enemy intended for harm, God will use for good for the saving of his people. And we can relate that to this conversation because the enemy would love to tear you down. The enemy would love, in fact, to get in your head so much that disordered eating risks your physical health. It risks your emotional health. It risks your relational health and your spiritual health because that's really what he wants. John 10:10 says a thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. So, basically, he wants us dead. Spiritually, relationally, emotionally.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:17:45]:

But the good that can come from it is when we use that past experience because we get it, and we can walk with another.

Heather Creekmore [00:17:55]:

Yeah.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:17:56]:

And we understand our circumstances are not identical. They never will be, but I can understand because I've struggled with the same insecurity, or I've struggled with identity issues, or I've really struggled to know, can God still use me after I've done x, y, or z? Because the answer is yes. God uses imperfect people because aside from his son, Jesus, there are no other kind.

Heather Creekmore [00:18:26]:

We're all imperfect. Yeah. Yeah. I love that because the reality is if you're like, okay, God must use my scars. And then you just start sharing the scars indiscriminately on Facebook or with everyone you meet, like, you might not get a warm response that is then going to reinforce those messages of shame and send you right back into hiding. And so the wisdom there is beautiful because the wisdom really is no, find someone who understands the journey you've been on.

Heather Creekmore [00:19:07]:

Right? And I mean, that's a model for Alcoholics Anonymous, Al Anon, like that's the model for any kind of recovery program. You don't go out and find someone who has no idea what you've been through. You find someone to take that first step with who gets it, and then you start to receive the feedback of “it's okay. You're gonna be okay. Jesus is with you. You can do this.” And, you know, then eventually, you might have some more freedom to throw it out there a little bit broader, but there's great wisdom in that. So I appreciate that for sure.

Embracing Scars To Help Yourself Heal

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:19:44]:

There is no mistake that we can make that is not redeemable by God's love, grace, mercy, and forgiveness. Nothing. Nothing. In my private practice, though, when patients would come in, it was usually shame that prompted them to think “you would be shocked if I told you what I've done”, or “you would be shocked if I told you what had been done to me. It would be too embarrassing to tell you.” Well, first of all, let me just say, having been in the mental health field for over 30 years, nothing shocks me anymore.

Heather Creekmore [00:20:29]:

Right.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:20:30]:

I've heard it all. Nothing shocks me. But the other part of that is that when patients would begin to develop some trust and then they shared their big, bad, darkest secret, they realized they didn't get the response they thought they were gonna get. It didn't hurt that bad. Right. And it actually provided some relief to their suffering. Right. The enemy wants to keep you bound up in guilt, shame, remorse, regret.

Heather Creekmore [00:21:05]:

Mhmm.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:21:06]:

Because he knows that that will limit your potential. He knows what your potential is. You are a child of the most high God. But let me just encourage you that sharing that pain, that shame with a trusted individual, whether it's a friend, a mentor, a counselor, a coach, a pastor, someone who's trusted, who can speak the truth in love will provide so much healing. But that's the part we have to play. In my book, Sacred Scars, there's a whole chapter on “we have to feel it to heal it”. And it's a really good chapter about someone who went through something you would never wanna go through.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:21:55]:

And she was so ashamed and embarrassed. But when it came out, now such beautiful things are coming from it, but we have to feel it to heal it. And if we won't take the time to do that and to get some help and some healing, I promise you, it's gonna come out some other time. When another major life crisis hits. And when it comes out, it's gonna not be in your control, and you're gonna wish you had dealt with it earlier. So for those of us who like control, which, by the way, is all of us, when you choose to pick up the phone and ask for help to call Heather and say, “I need some coaching”, you are taking control and moving forward in your healing process. And that's a beautiful thing.

Heather Creekmore [00:22:57]:

Yeah. I love that. Because I feel like especially with body issues and food issues, like, the shame is so great that I think the other lie of the enemy is that you really don't need help for them. Like, really, these are kinda lame issues. Like, you should be able to fix that yourself. You know, you should be able to just get well by listening to a podcast. You don't really have to do anything about it. We can just read about stuff all day long. But like you said, until you take the action step, that's when you have the opportunity to feel it and heal it to your point.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:23:33]:

Sometimes we're the worst at “shoulding” on ourselves. “I should be able to handle this by myself. I should watch my calories. I should exercise more.” But, really, is that what God says? Yeah. Because chances are that's coming from another voice.

Lessons From Jeremiah on Facing Uncertainty and Opposition

Heather Creekmore [00:23:54]:

Right. Right. In your book, you talk about Jeremiah. And one of the things you said that stuck out to me was, like, part of Jeremiah's lament is that being a prophet wasn't working out the way he thought it was gonna work out.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:24:09]:

Yeah. I'm Jeremiah.

Heather Creekmore [00:24:11]:

Right. And I'm thinking, like, wait. Oh, getting married did not work out. Like, that was not what I expected. Right? Becoming a mom, not what I expected. Even, like, even writing books, not what I expected. Right? And so I think to some degree, no matter what your story, you can relate to Jeremiah's like, oh, this is the fairy tale? No.This is not the fairy tale. Like, I must be in the wrong story. But can you fill that out a little bit? Like, how you talk about Jeremiah and kinda what we can learn from him?

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:24:41]:

Yeah. What I love about Jeremiah is that he remained steadfast in his calling, but it was not easy. Most of the time, Jeremiah had to give bad news. And yet he continued to hold on to the faithfulness of God, and he was rewarded for that. But life did not look like he wanted it to look. 

You know, if God gave me a message to give to the people, I would hope their response is, “yay! Yay! What a great message! I can't wait to see God do” - no. Most of the time, people are like, “we don't want that to happen.” And he's like, “yeah, well, don't shoot the messenger. This is God's message.” But that does happen to us frequently where we get a mental picture of what life should look like. And there are very few certainties in this life, but you can be certain that there is an enemy who seeks to steal, kill, and destroy.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:25:43]:

But you can be certain that we have a God who's greater than the enemy, and God is always for you. He has good things for you. He offers you a future and a hope. So let's look to the light and dispel the darkness. Believe what God really wants for you is the absolute best.

Heather Creekmore [00:26:10]:

Yeah.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:26:11]:

But will you surrender what that looks like and when that's gonna happen? I wanted my physical healing, 50 years ago.

Heather Creekmore [00:26:22]:

Mhmm.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:26:23]:

I'm still waiting for that. But what I have seen is I've seen God heal other areas of my life that I didn't even know I needed healing from. Mhmm. But now I look, and I'm like, “oh God. You were so smart. I'm kinda glad I didn't get what I asked for and that you gave me what was best for me.”

Dealing With Secondary Pain

Heather Creekmore [00:26:40]:

Yeah. Yeah. Trying to decide which way to go because there's a couple things you said there I wanna jump off on. But when you walked through cancer, did you feel like you brought it on yourself? Did you have that struggle? Like, oh, I did this. So you didn't you didn't wrestle that?

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:26:59]:

I didn't feel like I brought it on myself. But let me just say, the enemy will use other people to give us those messages.

Heather Creekmore [00:27:09]:

False messages. Funny.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:27:11]:

Yeah. In my book, The Hem of His Garment, I refer to that as secondary pain. The pain that is inflicted by the words or actions of others that make us feel worse in our pain. So both my husband and I have gone through cancer. I've just recently been given another cancer diagnosis, I have surgery next week. I didn't feel like I brought it on. Sometimes things just happen. I mean, come on. We live in a toxic world.

Heather Creekmore [00:27:44]:

Right. Right.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:27:44]:

Could I have eaten a sugar free diet all of my life? Not probable in the world we live in.

Heather Creekmore [00:27:54]:

And still no guarantee. No. Still no guarantee.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:27:57]:

Still no guarantee. But when I was overly transparent in the early years, about my cancer journey,

Heather Creekmore [00:28:08]:

Mhmm.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:28:09]:

I received a lot of messages from a lot of people that my cancer was because of unconfessed sin, because I didn't pray enough, because I didn't pray the perfect prayer of healing, because my diet wasn't clean enough, because I use cleaning products that are toxic. I've heard all the things. 

So if you followed my journey at all, now you see I'm a little bit quieter about the specifics. I'll share that I'm going through a cancer battle. But I don't really share the specifics anymore because I don't really wanna give more ammunition. But what I've also learned, Heather, I've learned not to receive those messages. That's their issue.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:28:56]:

And what I do that causes my self harm, God is more than capable in a gentle, loving way of correcting me. I really don't need other people to try to do that for me. But isn't that how the enemy works? But it kept me not to take an offense at their caring comments that don't always come across as well.

Wounds And Scars Strengthen Our Faith and Trust in God

Heather Creekmore [00:29:25]:

Yeah. Well, I mean, the connection I'm making is I think sometimes our scars show us that we're not in control and that's a good thing.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:29:35]:

Yes.

Heather Creekmore [00:29:36]:

Right? And so, like you said, no one wants to choose a cancer journey or any of these other hard things, especially some of the hard things you write about in the book. No one's signing up for that. But on the other side, when it's no longer a wound, when it's a scar, I think your faith grows because you're able to say, “I had no control over that. And yet God is faithful. He walked with me through it. He was so good. I could trust him.”

Heather Creekmore [00:30:10]:

And on the other side, on the you know, before when we're still actually just walking around wounded, because we're all wounded. I mean, that's just, we're all wounded. Right? And if you don't think you're wounded, then I hope you'll go get some counseling. Right? And we'll try to find a way. No. 

I mean, we're all wounded. And maybe the better way to say it, I mean, we're being a little glib there, but the better way to say it is, and this would have been my story through my twenties into my thirties, like, I didn't see my wounds because of my self righteousness. I thought it was too good to have wounds. Just doing everything perfectly.

But on the other side of that, our faith is a little bit more shallow. Right? Like, yeah, I trust God, but I also trust me to take care of stuff. Right? And even, like, to your point about, like, the “advice” you got around cancer, like, isn't that all of us? Right? They're like, well, if you’d just done ABC, then it's all under your control. Just, you know, do this and then this happens. And when you're sitting in it, you're like, no, like, what? You have no idea. Right? And then on the other side of it, you have so much more grace and compassion for anyone going through it because you're like, no. I understand. It wasn't like you did x and y happened. It it was like, some things just happen, but God is still good. Look at Job. Exactly. I mean, there's no more righteous man. Right?

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:31:37]:

That's the very first verse. Right. He was blameless. Yeah. And right. Well, right there, I don't even measure up. Right?

Heather Creekmore [00:31:44]:

Right. Right.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:31:46]:

But he went through all this stuff, all this stuff. And his friends were wonderful for a week. They sat with him quietly in his room, and then they decided

Heather Creekmore [00:32:00]:

They couldn't keep their mouth shut. 

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:32:04]:

They couldn't keep their mouth shut, and they started telling Job what they thought he did to bring this on himself and what he should do about it. When in actuality, when Job went directly to God, God's like, “let me teach you some things, son. Let me show you how this world really works.” And we get to the end of the story, and Job is like, wow. I thought I knew you before God. Now I know you in a much deeper, more intimate way. Now did that mean that he didn't grieve, continue to grieve the 10 children he lost? No. No. He was gonna miss them because he loved them, but he had a much richer relationship with God.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:32:51]:

And just speaking for myself, none of your listeners or for you, Heather, but speaking for myself, if I never went through any of those painful trials, I know me. I would definitely be like, I got this, God. I'll let you know when I need you. But when I have gone through the things where I am flat on my back with no place to look but God it's like I can sense Him say, “finally, we can make some progress here because we're willing to have a dialogue.”

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:33:25]:

And I do grow so much more through it. And, you know, we've talked about my physical scars. I have longed for 5 decades for God to take those away, but I've kinda come to the place like Paul where I'm like, you know what? These scars remind me, first of all, they remind me that I'm still alive. God saved my life. I should have died all those years ago. 

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:33:49]:

I didn't die. I have physical scars to show for that, but it reminds me of God's faithfulness. Now I can continue to be mad at God because he hasn't healed me, or I can look at that and go, no, oh my gosh, that reminds me that, God, you are greater than what the doctors predicted. Like, I'm gonna trust you over what any doctor says or a well meaning friend who tells me why I have cancer.

Suffering Equips For Unique Ministry

Heather Creekmore [00:34:16]:

Right. Right. Right. Our suffering draws us closer to him. Our suffering, you know, develops us as believers. And it's interesting as I think about, like, women who have body issues and food issues. I think a lot of it is we're trying to avoid suffering. Right? We don't wanna suffer.

Heather Creekmore [00:34:38]:

So I'm gonna eat a certain way, hoping that I won't suffer. Either I'll eat a certain way to, you know, make sure that my body looks a certain way so you will never criticize or reject me. Or I'll eat a certain way because it seems to comfort perceived suffering, or, you know, like, we're trying to avoid suffering. And yet, really, like, that's kind of one of the things we're promised as believers. Right? It's not your best life that we're promised. It's suffering. And like you said, no one's signing up for that.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:35:14]:

But even in that statement, there's no shame in that. Even Jesus said, father, if there is any other way 

Heather Creekmore:

Right. Yeah. That's good. Yep. 

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:35:29]:

I don't wanna suffer. If there's any other way, take it from me. But I want your will more than I want mine. So Yeah. So even if some of these behaviors are because we are trying to avoid suffering, I don't want you to feel shame for that because even Jesus wanted to avoid that suffering.

Heather Creekmore [00:35:47]:

Yeah. That's good. Otherwise, you're masochistic.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:35:50]:

They surrendered to God. Right. Right. Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:35:55]:

And really the best life that we're promised by avoiding suffering is a shallow life. Right? The best life that we get is after we have these sacred scars. You know, I was on your show. You were interviewing women about their sacred scar stories. And I was on your show sharing about how, you know, the fact that I have these body image eating disorder scars is what has equipped me for this ministry. 

And this is not the path I would have chosen. Like, I really wish I had never struggled with body image a day in my life. Like, that would have been much preferable that I was easy breezy. You know, like, whatever, I’m not worried about it! Like, I would much rather have that story. And somehow instead, I'm talking about, like, body stuff all the time, every day. That's what I talk about.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:36:48]:

Yes. You would not have chosen that ministry. I would not have chosen to be the poster child for depression. You know? I mean, very often, the ministries that we find ourselves in, even on a small scale, like, ministering to your neighbor over is not what we would have chosen. But I have gotten to the point with most things, God is still working on a few of my scars, but with most things that I can at least now go, “but I've seen God bring good from it.”

Heather Creekmore [00:37:23]:

Yeah.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:37:24]:

And for that, I am thankful. Yeah. I am not thankful for the depression itself, but I am thankful that I've seen God bring good from it.

“Resting in God’s Promise That Your Past is Not Wasted”

Heather Creekmore [00:37:35]:

Right. Right. Yeah. That's good. Well, is there anything else we need to know about this fabulous new book you have: Sacred Scars, Resting in God's Promise That Your Past is Not Wasted? What like, anything else in there that would be helpful for us to know as maybe an incentive to go get it, especially if you're one of those people wrestling that question of, “have I messed up my body?” I think doctor Bengtson has a lot of good stuff in there. But what else do we need to know about this book? 

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:38:04]:

I think one of the things that's really important that we don't miss is that subtitle, “resting in God's promise that your past is not wasted”. Because what I've learned in walking with patients for 30 years and what I've learned through my own wounds, my own pain, and my own sacred scars is that God never wastes the pain that we go through. 

But we're the ones who often think that what we've gone through or the decisions we've made or what has happened to us disqualifies us from the abundant life that Christ came to give, from serving the Lord. In actuality, God never calls the equipped. He always equips those he calls.

Heather Creekmore [00:39:02]:

Yeah.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:39:03]:

So that's a way to look at what you've been through. But from a biblically based hope filled perspective, if you will, that God's gonna use this for good. He's equipping you, and it may be just to speak into the life of that next door neighbor. Or the clerk at the grocery store.

Heather Creekmore [00:39:26]:

Yeah.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:39:26]:

Or it might be on a bigger scale. Maybe it's maybe it's to your bible study group, tget real and say, “you know what? I've really struggled with something, but let me share what God has done.”

Heather Creekmore [00:39:38]:

Yeah.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:39:39]:

But take the time to heal it first.

Heather Creekmore [00:39:43]:

Mhmm.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:39:44]:

Don't hear what we're saying as, “oh my goodness. I have to jump into ministry too.”

Heather Creekmore [00:39:51]:

Don't rush the healing.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:39:54]:

Take time. The Lord will bring the people He wants to use you to comfort. But the amazing thing, and that might scare some of your listeners so let's talk about that just for a nanosecond. When we talk about the fact that God's not gonna waste your pain and he will use you to comfort others in the way that he comforts you. I don't want that to bring about fear. It will be in such a natural way. And as you minister to other people, you will end up being encouraged as well because scripture says those who refresh others will be refreshed.

God’s Redemptive Economy Refreshes and Encourages

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:40:35]:

That is God's amazing redemptive economy. He's like, oh, yeah. I'm gonna use you in the life of other people. But because of that, it's gonna encourage your heart too. And then you'll continue to encourage more people, and that's gonna encourage your heart, that's just how good God is. He doesn't waste your pain because he's a God of redemption.

Heather Creekmore [00:40:57]:

Right. Right. Yeah. I love that. And to think that you're the only one who we can't redeem. That's really pride. Right? That's the reverse side of pride. And I meet a lot of people that get stuck there.

Heather Creekmore [00:41:13]:

Like, “but my stuff was too bad. Like, you don't know what I did.” No! Peter denied Jesus 3 times within a couple hours of hanging out with him. God built his church on Peter. Paul, he used to kill Christians, and he wrote half the Bible. Right? I mean, no. No.

Heather Creekmore [00:41:35]:

Do not decide that you're disqualified because what you did was too bad. That's a lie from the pit of hell. Don't let that pride deceive you. Receive his grace and walk forward in forgiveness.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:41:48]:

You cannot thwart God's plan then. You are just not that good.

Heather Creekmore [00:41:52]:

Right. Right. You're not that powerful.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:41:55]:

You're not. God is God. 

Heather Creekmore [00:41:58]:

Right. Yeah. That's good. 

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:42:00]:

It’s a question of will you surrender?

Heather Creekmore [00:42:02]:

Yeah. Yeah. That surrender stuff's hard for those of us who like control.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:42:07]:

You were talking to a control freak right here! It's really hard. But we have a choice, and that's one of the things that I love about God is he's not gonna wrestle us for it. He's like, let me know when you're ready. I'll be here.

Heather Creekmore [00:42:21]:

Yeah.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:42:22]:

What I have found is that the sooner I will surrender my pain to him, the sooner I get some relief and some healing, and it ends up being a beautiful thing. That's another lie of the enemy. He wants to convince me. “Oh, no, no, no, no, no. I can't take that to God.” As if God doesn't already know. He knows. He's like, “draw near to me. I will draw near to you, but you have to take the first move.” He's not gonna pry our heart open.

Connect With Dr. Michelle B

Heather Creekmore [00:42:53]:

Yeah. That's good. Yeah. So Sacred Scars, Resting in God's Promise That Your Past is Not Wasted. Available everywhere books are sold this month in May. Right? And I'll link to some of the interviews we've done about some of your other books. So if someone's battling depression, your first book is great for that. And you've touched on some other topics that I think will resonate with listeners as well.

Heather Creekmore [00:43:21]:

So I'll try to link to those other interviews we've done with your other books, but tell everyone where they can connect with you.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:43:26]:

Easiest way to find me is at www.doctormichelleb.com because nobody can spell or pronounce my last name. So we made it easy for you. And from there, you can find my books, my podcast, decades of blog posts, free resources, and links to where all the books are sold.

Heather Creekmore [00:43:44]:

Wonderful. Thanks, Michelle, so much for being on the show today.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson [00:43:48]:

Always fun to be with you.

Heather Creekmore [00:43:49]:

And thank you for watching or listening today. I hope something today has helped you stop comparing and start living. Bye bye.