Jesus Didn't Look Like an Influencer: Dying to Live with Margaret Jen Burke [Podcast Transcript]

Title: Jesus Didn't Look Like an Influencer: Dying to Live with Margaret Jen Burke

Podcast Date: January 31, 2025

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Description

Consider today's episode a heart check-up for your spiritual health. Today Heather chats with author Margaret Jen Burke about her book titled, "Dying to Live: Letting Go of Earthly Treasures to Find Eternal Joy." In the book, Margaret Jen challenges American Christian women to consider the ways they are killing themselves (literally and spiritually) to strive for the American dream or the promised comforts of this life, while missing out on the supreme joy, comfort, and contentment found in Christ alone. Margaret Jen talks about how our quest for satisfaction will never be quenched at TJ Maxx...but how the greatest satisfaction we can discover is connected to our journey of sanctification in Christ. Is the American dream what's killing our contentment? Why do we follow and try to be like so many influencers when, the truth is, Jesus didn't look like an influencer? This episode will challenge you to think about your spiritual health in a new way.

Learn more about Margaret Jen Burke here: https://www.instagram.com/margaretjenburke/

Read or order her book, "Dying to Live" here: https://amzn.to/42eX4GE  (Amazon affiliate link)

Here's the "Do You Long to Be Hot or Holy" episode mentioned in today's show: https://www.improvebodyimage.com/blog/hot-or-holy 

Learn more about Compared to Who? here: https://www.improvebodyimage.com

Learn more about Heather's 40-Day body image workbook here: https://amzn.to/4jkkpfW

Transcript

Disclaimer: This transcript is AI-generated and has not been edited for accuracy or clarity.

Margaret Jen Burke [00:00:04]:

Hey there, friend. Heather Creekmore here. This month on the podcast, we're talking all about health. And today's angle on health may be a little different than what you'd expect. Today, my guest is Margaret Jen Burke who's written a book called Dying to Live. And it's not really about your physical health. It's about your spiritual health. It's about the American dream.

Margaret Jen Burke [00:00:27]:

It's about our desire, perhaps oh, it's treading carefully here, to look more like our favorite influencer than to look like Jesus. Margaret Jen is 29 years old. She is wise beyond her years and bringing what I would call maybe a prophetic voice to a realm of Christian women who've gotten comfortable. And I'm included in that realm, friend. My hand is raised. It is so easy to be comfortable, and dare I say, complacent, especially here in the United States. But Margaret is really calling us to live for something greater than just the American dream, to live for Jesus. And she gently and sweetly points out how chasing all other things may actually be killing us instead of leading us to the true life in him.

Margaret Jen Burke [00:01:27]:

You're gonna really enjoy this interview. I'm glad you're here for it. Hey. If you need more encouragement around body image issues, I hope you'll check out my 40 day body image workbook, or join us in the 40 day journey where we spend 6 weeks on Zoom reading it together. It's a great way to start your journey to freedom and to really pursuing what matters most.

Heather Creekmore [00:01:48]:

Hey. I'm so glad you're here today. If you're brand new to the show, go to improve body image.com.

Margaret Jen Burke [00:01:52]:

You can learn all about us. You can get on our email list. You can get a free resource kit every month with links to shows, YouTube videos, blog posts, all the things that connect to our topics each month. That's at improve body image.com. Now let's get to today's episode.

Heather Creekmore [00:02:14]:

Welcome to Compare To Who, the podcast to help you make peace with your body so you can savor God's rest and feel his love. If you're tired of fighting body image the world's way, compared to you is the show for you. You've likely heard lots of talk about loving your body, but my goal is different. Striving to fall in love with stretch marks and cellulite is a little silly to me. Instead, I want to encourage you and remind you with the truth of scripture that you are seen, you are known, and you are loved no matter what your size or shape. Here, the pressure is off. If you're looking for real talk, biblical encouragement, and regular reminders that God loves you and you're not alone, you've come to the right place. I hope you enjoy today's show, and, hey, tell a friend about it.

Heather Creekmore [00:03:00]:

Margaret Jen Burke, welcome to the Compare To You Show.

Heather Creekmore [00:03:03]:

Hi. Thank you. It's so good to be here.

Heather Creekmore [00:03:06]:

Well, I accidentally stumbled upon your new book called Dying to Live because it's coming out. It's just released with the same publisher that I released 2 books with. And I'm reading through this information. I'm like,

Margaret Jen Burke [00:03:19]:

this is really

Heather Creekmore [00:03:21]:

helpful. Like this is really where my people are and what we're talking about a lot on this show. So I thought you'd be a great fit. And I would love to just get started with you telling us just a little bit about yourself. Like, who are you, and why did you wanna write a book like this?

Heather Creekmore [00:03:42]:

So, yeah, I, I realized that that I had this, like, larger theme of kind of, like, what my what my struggles were. They they were they were different, but they were all kind of under this, like, umbrella of, you know, kind of the American dream. And that's like a huge keyword in this book, which I think the term is somewhat outdated, but it is still very much apparent in our, culture. And I realized, you know, looking at, you know, all my writing, like, this is a big deal for me, and this is something that I really struggle with. And I need to start talking to people about this because it's something that I see a lot of women struggling with in and outside of the church. Mhmm. But it was inside of the church that I was concerned about

Heather Creekmore [00:04:43]:

Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:04:43]:

Because this is something that we should not be struggling with. Right. But it's it is so ingrained in our culture and in, you know, who we are and just what we do as humans. You know, you you grow up and you have to get a job and so you have to be educated. And so, and we're just taught to acquire and acquire and acquire. And then before you know it, it's like, wow. I have and, you know, am continuing to live the American dream. And I and I don't think that is what God has called us to.

Heather Creekmore [00:05:17]:

Mhmm. So that has been a giant struggle.

Heather Creekmore [00:05:20]:

Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:05:21]:

So that's really where the book came from. It all of a sudden was like, I have so much writing and I kind of just threw it all together and, you know, started kinda getting a feel for, do people care about this? Is this something that they wanna hear or maybe you know, because people people don't

Heather Creekmore [00:05:45]:

They hear this, Margaret. Actually, you wouldn't wanna say that.

Heather Creekmore [00:05:48]:

They don't. They really don't. It's

Heather Creekmore [00:05:50]:

I'll just answer that for you. No. They don't want to hear it.

Heather Creekmore [00:05:52]:

Okay? They they don't. And I've actually experienced a lot of that on, social media.

Heather Creekmore [00:05:58]:

Uh-huh. Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:05:59]:

Oh, yeah. People have not, been kind to this topic, which I think is all the more apparent of we need to talk about this.

Heather Creekmore [00:06:07]:

Right.

Heather Creekmore [00:06:08]:

So yeah. And all of a sudden, it's here on my table in book form. You know, and so that's but that's really been a a testament to my experience really, like, growing up. I am 29, but I feel like I grew up in the past 5 years.

Heather Creekmore [00:06:25]:

Uh-huh.

Heather Creekmore [00:06:26]:

You know, just being out on your own. I got married. I had kids, and and it's really put a lot of things into perspective. And even having been, you know, a follower of Christ, my whole life, I have really had to to deep dive and go back to the foundation Yeah. And and realize, like, I have been a Christian, but I I haven't known what it really means to to follow the Lord. And so that's kind of my journey, and and it will be offensive to some people

Heather Creekmore [00:06:58]:

Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:06:58]:

And and uncomfortable, but it's really my experience and my sin and my struggle. Yeah. So it's not meant to point fingers, but but that that reaction comes out when you're like, I I feel attacked by, you know, what what I'm reading. We we need to talk about it.

Heather Creekmore [00:07:16]:

Yep. Yep. Well, let me encourage you. So my first book came out in 2017. Okay. And it was my story, kinda like your book is this your story in part. It was my story of God convicting me of idolatry around body image. Yes.

Heather Creekmore [00:07:32]:

And I couldn't find any other book out there. Like I had read all the body image books that were like, oh, if you just get hotter for Jesus, like just, you know, work out harder and then you'll look better and then you'll feel better and Jesus will be happy. And I mean, it just fed my idolatry. Mhmm. And I'll tell you, hopefully, it was encouragement that, like, I've had so many women that have read the book and they were like, oh, I didn't know this was my problem. Like, this changed my life. Yeah. And so I pray the same for your book because that's really what you're doing is you're calling out the idolatry.

Heather Creekmore [00:08:07]:

And the idolatry of the American dream, the idolatry of, like, living this comfortable, fabulous life that you're so right. Like, so many women and men, but, you know, we're talking women here. Women in the church, it's like, that's what I aspire to. Like, how can I just, you know, get this aspect of my life a little better and this aspect of my life a little better and, you know, improve this, improve this, improve this, and then I will be satisfied? Mhmm. But in your writing, you talk about like, that's not where satisfaction really comes from. It doesn't actually work that way, does it? Like, what Yeah. What have you experienced and discovered?

Heather Creekmore [00:08:49]:

So it's funny that it's funny that you say that because I really when I was struggling, was thinking like, well, I don't have the answers. I, you know, I have all this writing and that's great. And it's really just me, you know, getting it down on paper. That's that's, like, really therapeutic, but it's also like my prayer journal is I'm writing out my prayers, like, word for word to God. And and it's the good and the bad and the ugly, and and it keeps me accountable. But it also allows me to go back and to look at my growth and the prayers that the Lord has answered. And but besides all that writing, I was like, I clearly don't have any of the answers. And so I went to the market to to to look for bible study books or, you know, Christian self help or, you know, what have you.

Heather Creekmore [00:09:38]:

And none of them address the the that that sort of wrestling. It's it's like they they want they're like they're feel good books. They they want the reader to walk away and think I'm fine. I'm doing a good job. And Yeah. And I'm you know, this is fine. My lifestyle is fine. Everything is fine.

Heather Creekmore [00:10:06]:

And and I thought, okay. This is a lot more serious than I thought Yeah. Because none of us are fine. Mhmm. And that complacency is I mean, it it terrified me. Mhmm. And and I've I've seen that a lot in the church too of, like, we're doing a great job, and Jesus loves us, and and he does. But we are sinners, and without him, we we deserve hell.

Heather Creekmore [00:10:34]:

Because of what he did on the cross, we should look at our life and and know that that we aren't doing it right. And so how can we be better? How can we live for him? And we should want that. We should have that fire in our hearts, and we don't. And I think it's it goes back to the American dream of, like, we're so busy with our secular responsibilities and, you know, all our stuff. And it's and we're overwhelmed, and then we put Jesus on the back burner. And just like you said, Jesus wants you to be hotter. It's like, what? You know? And and that's and that's what I've what I've realized in my research and partly why I wrote the book is Jesus never once says in the Bible that he wants you to be happy. He he wants you to experience joy that is freely given through him.

Heather Creekmore [00:11:28]:

Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:11:28]:

But we confuse that for earthly happiness

Heather Creekmore [00:11:34]:

Right.

Heather Creekmore [00:11:35]:

And the pursuit of happiness. And it's like, well, God wants you to be happy, and it's like, actually, he doesn't. He doesn't want you to be miserable. Right. But, you know, the the fact that he came to give you a rich and satisfying life does not mean that you're hot or you're happy.

Heather Creekmore [00:11:50]:

Right.

Heather Creekmore [00:11:51]:

You know, apart from the joy that he he brings.

Heather Creekmore [00:11:58]:

We've taken the American dream and we've kinda like plastered it over the Bible where we kind of read the Bible through the lens of, you know, of the American dream. And actually, I talk about the American dream. I use this illustration for body image idolatry where I talk about biggest loser. Right? Which hasn't been on this vision for a long time. Right? But the biggest loser really is a salvation story. Right? Someone goes from the hell of being in a very large body, and then they meet a savior, their personal trainer who, you know, whips them into shape over the Wow. 6 weeks or whatever. And then at the end, and this is where I always say it's the American dream.

Heather Creekmore [00:12:39]:

They're in heaven. They can wear cute clothes and run marathons, which is like, you know, the the ideal accomplishment for so many American women. But it's so shallow. Mhmm. And and I don't mean shallow in like a in a condemning way. Like, you should be deeper than that. But it's like the joy and the satisfaction that God wants to give us are so much deeper and richer and actually satisfying than that, like, little buzz you get from being able to wear the size you always wanted to wear and, like, finish the 26 miles, which I don't know why anyone would ever wanna run 26 miles. That's not my thing.

Heather Creekmore [00:13:21]:

I know. But, it is a trap

Heather Creekmore [00:13:26]:

Mhmm. Oh, yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:13:27]:

That we fall into living for the American dream. So can I just

Margaret Jen Burke [00:13:33]:

ask you, like, what

Heather Creekmore [00:13:34]:

do you think the biggest part of that struggle was for you? Like, what part of chasing the American dream did you feel most caught up in personally?

Heather Creekmore [00:13:44]:

I've I've grown up in the deep south.

Heather Creekmore [00:13:47]:

Okay.

Heather Creekmore [00:13:47]:

Which is why I mentioned the junior league. Yeah. Because that's huge.

Heather Creekmore [00:13:51]:

You

Heather Creekmore [00:13:51]:

know? Sorority's huge. And and, you know, the debutante, all that. And so it's pretty. Mhmm. You've gotta be pretty. You've gotta be wealthy. Yeah. You know? So things like that.

Heather Creekmore [00:14:06]:

And to an extent, that's what I bought into.

Heather Creekmore [00:14:10]:

Yeah. You

Heather Creekmore [00:14:10]:

know? I wasn't in a sorority. I'm not in the junior league. So but those are those are kind of the things that you need to aspire to. Right? Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:14:19]:

Did you know did you know let me interrupt you for one second because I just heard this this weekend. Did you know that you can hire someone to help your daughter when she's a freshman in high school? Yes. Like, prepare herself to get in the sorority of her dreams. Yes. I was like Yes. Oh my word.

Heather Creekmore [00:14:35]:

And it's a popular thing.

Heather Creekmore [00:14:37]:

Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:14:37]:

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Easy. Okay. Gotcha. I know. No.

Heather Creekmore [00:14:41]:

It is it is there is a whole world of absurdity, and I and I it is it is real for a lot of people, and so I am not trashing it or but that that that is the exact kind of thing that I thought, what are we doing? You know? Life is so much bigger than that if if you know the Lord. And a lot of women who are going down that path are also trying to go down the path toward heaven and towards the Lord. And and I realized you cannot have both. And I think for me, it was it was almost like it was almost like I was a slave to it. Mhmm. You know? I I wanna be one of those girls.

Heather Creekmore [00:15:26]:

Mhmm.

Heather Creekmore [00:15:28]:

But in my heart that my, you know, my heart of hearts, I realized, like, that is not what God calls us to. And, you know, I'm we're military. We're a military family, and so my husband deploys. And when he's gone, I don't know whether it's like a defense mechanism or, like, just how I get through it, but I shop. I spend money Uh-huh. Like you wouldn't believe. And, you know, it's whether it's, like, clothes or, like, house decor or, like, I I painted the whole house the last time he was gone. Uh-huh.

Heather Creekmore [00:16:01]:

And and so, like, part of me is like, oh, that's fine. That's just how, you know, you are getting through it. And then part of me is like, that is absolutely not okay because you are spending God's resources to, you know, serve yourself. And and we do this a lot. And I realized, like, if I truly believe in God, which I do and I always have, why haven't I changed my lifestyle or chosen to live in a way that suggests that he really is real and that this is my reality. Yeah. Because I you you know? And I mentioned that in the book. It's like the disciples and the early church, they they suffered.

Heather Creekmore [00:16:54]:

They lived as if they thought that God was real. Yeah. And the culture of Christian women you know, I'm at TJ Maxx every other day. Yeah. And and I and I dwell and I worry about what I look like. Mhmm. You know? My hair, my I just had a baby. Right? And it's like, okay.

Heather Creekmore [00:17:14]:

The next step is to get your baby weight off. Yeah. And it's like, why is this what we focus on? Right. And it's and and you become a slave to it. And and I just thought this is not I do not wanna get to the end of my life and realize, like, I wasted it because I, you know, I did things that that were temporary. And and I and I net like, I I lived in this space of satisfaction, and I never got to the point of seeking a deeper relationship with Christ because I was too busy acquiring and and, you know, trying to achieve the American dream. And and for a lot of women, that is, you know yes. You know, you you drive the Volvo or the Mercedes or or you know, and you have the mansion and your kids are in private school and you're in the junior league and but it is also it is very much physical.

Heather Creekmore [00:18:15]:

You know? Are you a size 2? Are you know, do you get Botox? And listen. I I can ride that train with the best of them.

Heather Creekmore [00:18:23]:

Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:18:24]:

But it so in a in a sense, it is it really is dying to yourself every day. And, like, my husband and I joke about this because it does sound so shallow,

Heather Creekmore [00:18:35]:

but

Heather Creekmore [00:18:35]:

he asked me the other day I mean, now probably months ago, but he he said, like, are you gonna go get your nails done? And I was like, no. I'm not. I'm dying to myself today. And it's like, wow. Okay. Really? Like, you're you're actually, like, you're not. But but it that is like a one step towards I'm gonna yes. Of course.

Heather Creekmore [00:18:55]:

I wanna go get my nails done, but I'm gonna spend that, you know, $100 serving somebody for the Lord instead of just mindlessly spending it on myself, you know, to make myself feel prettier or you know? And and I think that if we were dwelling in his presence like we should be, that would be the last thing on our on our mind. That was the last thing that that we care about.

Heather Creekmore [00:19:25]:

Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:19:26]:

And and and I don't wanna live in that space. And I think I think it might have really started when I started having kids because then you're responsible for another precious life and leading them to the Lord. And I thought, how how am I gonna am I gonna lead my children when I have chosen a lifestyle that you know, of comfort and luxury, and I don't really depend on the Lord. I don't live as if he's real. Mhmm. And and the more that I really got into the topic and the struggle, I realized, like, every woman around me in in, you know, one form or another was struggling with the same thing, but we've just accepted it.

Heather Creekmore [00:20:13]:

Yeah. Well, I yeah. I mean, I

Margaret Jen Burke [00:20:14]:

think something you said kind of

Heather Creekmore [00:20:16]:

at the beginning of your answer was, like, I can't be on both paths. And I think that that's an anathema to a lot of women. Mhmm. It's like, no. I'm on this path and Jesus comes with me. Right? Like, I I really have like a theological problem with the Jesus is my copilot or God is my copilot, like bumper sticker, which I don't see as many of them anymore, but I'm like, no, he should not be the copilot. He should be driving. Yes.

Heather Creekmore [00:20:45]:

He's not in your passenger seat. Like, Jesus is gonna go with me and do whatever I wanna get done. Right? Like, that's not the right the right theology, but

Heather Creekmore [00:20:54]:

But that's what we think.

Heather Creekmore [00:20:55]:

Yeah. It's like, I just want God to bless my goals. I want God to bless me so I can get a nicer home, and I want God to bless me so I can lose the weight. I don't wanna lose anyone. God to bless me so I can, you know, have kids that do amazing things and, you know, I can show them off on Facebook and, like, all those things. And we've missed it.

Heather Creekmore [00:21:15]:

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Heather Creekmore [00:21:16]:

And I mean and I I think I can speak for you on this as well. Like, none of this is to shame anyone. No. Like, this is a call out of, like, our own experiences of we missed it and recognizing we missed it and, like, oh, don't everyone miss it. Like, come Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:21:37]:

I know.

Heather Creekmore [00:21:38]:

Different way of of seeing things.

Heather Creekmore [00:21:40]:

But Yeah. And that's where my heart really is Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:21:42]:

Go ahead.

Heather Creekmore [00:21:43]:

In in that, because it it is terrifying. It is terrifying to think that we're just blindly, you know, going about our lives, and and I've had to as soon as the book came out, my husband and I started rereading it because I am, like, the number one person who needs to read the book. And so, you know, when people are like, wow. You could have said this differently. You know, you don't need to shame other Christians or or whatever, and it's like, this is a self reflection.

Heather Creekmore [00:22:12]:

Mhmm.

Heather Creekmore [00:22:13]:

But I I am so basic and so normal that, like, other people are struggling with this too.

Heather Creekmore [00:22:18]:

Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:22:18]:

And and so you're right. It's not it is by no means, you know, do I wanna make people feel bad, but we are called. And and, of course, you know, you know this as a as a writer and a podcaster. Like, you've been in that position of, you know, God has given you a message, and you're called to help other women see that and turn from it so that their lives aren't wasted for his kingdom.

Heather Creekmore [00:22:43]:

Right.

Heather Creekmore [00:22:44]:

And it is uncomfortable. Yeah. And and that's what you know, when I really started to wrestle with the reactions, and it's really been on social media, of course. Mhmm. I had somebody tell me, you're doing something right. Mhmm. You know? If if people are getting uncomfortable because we are told by the mainstream media and the culture of, you know, Christians and church and, you know, that we're doing a good job and that it's okay to, you know I I yeah. It's, you know, like, I wanna be hot.

Heather Creekmore [00:23:21]:

I wanna be rich. I wanna be and, you know, you see that in a lot of Christian women who are leaders.

Heather Creekmore [00:23:30]:

Mhmm.

Heather Creekmore [00:23:31]:

And that was a big red flag for me too, thinking, like, people like me who are struggling look at the leadership, whether it's, you know, pastor's wives who are, you know, Instagram famous or other writers who are really well known. You look at their lifestyle and you're like, okay. Well, it's fine to want those things because, you know, they have them. And it's like, okay. This is a massive problem.

Heather Creekmore [00:24:00]:

I I'm so glad that you pointed that out. I've wrestled with, like, sending a message that would probably never get read. Okay. Yeah. Like sending letters, sending an email or whatever, like to the Beth Moores and the Lisa Tarkers. Because, and I, you know, and I'm gonna say this is so much, I think compassion. I hope like, like, I understand like the pressure of like, people expect me to look a certain way, but I am talking to women every day who struggle with the way they look and they struggle with aging. Yes.

Heather Creekmore [00:24:41]:

And Lisa and Beth look like they're 30. And they're about 15, 20 years older than I am. And I'm like, that's not helping my ministry. When I'm trying to tell women that aging is a natural thing, like, God's okay with us aging, like, that's just kind of what happens to our bodies. Like, I don't have to spend my life savings trying to get surgeries to look like I'm still 20 years, 30 years younger than I am. And it's really difficult. It is because I, I think that they, I think they have beautiful hearts for the Lord and they have a message that has helped so many women. But I there's some disconnect Mhmm.

Heather Creekmore [00:25:25]:

Between image really like this is the image of an influencer. And dare I say, Jesus. Mhmm. Right? Because Jesus didn't look like an influencer. Mhmm. Like, scripture tells us there's nothing attractive about him. But yet, we have believed the American lie Mhmm. That I'm not gonna have any influence unless I can see, you know, look like I'm 30, but I'm 60 or unless I have an Instagram fabulous appearance.

Heather Creekmore [00:25:55]:

And it is hard because there is there's probably an ounce of truth to that. More people are gonna press like on your picture, and it's gonna get seen more if you look good.

Heather Creekmore [00:26:06]:

Yeah. But is that

Heather Creekmore [00:26:09]:

oh, I mean, it's it's I know.

Heather Creekmore [00:26:11]:

It's it is, and it makes me like, just just the way that you put it out there makes me just wanna scream at us because it's like, how can we be like this? Like, sitting at the feet of Jesus, why are we still like this? Like, our like but it's so easy to be. Yeah. And and if you like I said before, if you're not I I just think that we've we've watered down the gospel. Yeah. And and it's it's dangerous. It's become it's become really dangerous. And I and I've had I've had to really look at that.

Heather Creekmore [00:26:51]:

But it's a documentary of these missionaries that were living in, Iran. And they came back to the United States. And so, like, they're literally, like, dodging terrorists, like like secret prayer meetings, you know, church underground, like, can get beheaded if they are found out. Right? And so they come back to Los Angeles for, like, their, sabbatical, like, furlough of, like, 3 months.

Heather Creekmore [00:27:20]:

Sure.

Heather Creekmore [00:27:20]:

And someone asked them, like, you know, aren't you so glad to be back in the United States? Like, just some place where it's, you know, safe or you don't have to worry about that. And the woman's response, I'm gonna butcher it. But the woman's response was like, no, it was so much easier to serve Jesus over there. Uh-huh. I it wasn't comfortable. It wasn't safe. I didn't have all these distractions. And I was it was easier for me to be a Jesus follower Mhmm.

Heather Creekmore [00:27:45]:

Over there. And that convicted me so much. That's I was like, oh, yes. It is. It's just too easy to choose Instagram versus the Bible app. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I mean, even if that is sounds silly, but it's like, oh, I've got 5 minutes.

Heather Creekmore [00:28:03]:

I'm gonna scroll. Mhmm. I'm not gonna engage God's word. Like, I know, and it's it's hard to do this

Heather Creekmore [00:28:11]:

culture. We're so comfortable here. Yeah. It's and we don't have to fight for our faith.

Heather Creekmore [00:28:20]:

Right. And

Heather Creekmore [00:28:20]:

I and I think that's another reason why we it's not at the forefront. You know? Because it's like, oh, we go to church on Sunday, and we serve the Lord, and then we spend the rest of the week serving ourselves. And it's it is it is so dangerous. Yeah. A lot of us will never get to that space of okay. You know, what what does my life look like if I truly live live for God? Because at this point, you know, most of us are 30, 40, 50, and our lifestyle is, you know, so permanent feeling.

Heather Creekmore [00:29:02]:

Yeah. And I feel like for anyone listening today, I hope you're not depressed. I know. I know. Oh, so my husband, was preaching the other day on like the different, the differences between like the different like ministries. And he was talking about how like the prophetic gifting is more like the person who's like not afraid to tell you, like, where you're going wrong. And I was like, yeah, that's totally me. Like, I'm I'm like and that's social media has never blown up for me because I've been like, yeah, you're a big idolater.

Heather Creekmore [00:29:33]:

It's like stop idolat Yeah. Stop the idolatry. And it's like, that doesn't get a ton of likes. No. So, so anyway, if you're, like, listening to the show for the first time today or you're like, what? This is like Debbie Downer show. Yeah. Like, I think we got 2, like, prophetic giftings, but, we're gonna put together, like, get your life straight, just like Jonah. But I think the bottom line is right, for me, it's always been like, I couldn't change anything and telling you there's a problem.

Heather Creekmore [00:30:07]:

Mhmm. Right? Exactly. Like and so I feel like maybe the hope and the like, God has so much grace for us.

Margaret Jen Burke [00:30:14]:

Mhmm.

Heather Creekmore [00:30:14]:

Right? And so it's not too late. Like, even if, you know, you got your nails and your hair and your Botox and your implants all done this morning. You decided to tune into the show. It's not too late. Like, you haven't, like, done anything beyond God's grace. Like No. You know, and there's nothing sinful about getting your nails done. It's just it's just we need to start choosing what's better.

Heather Creekmore [00:30:38]:

Mhmm. Like, choose and and there's space, I think, for us to do some of those things that we enjoy for sure. Right. But I always talk about the treasure principle. Right? Like if I look at what I spent and it's all closed TJ Maxx. Love me some TJ Maxx. It's all like TJ Maxx charges and nails and hair and Sephora and all the things. Mhmm.

Heather Creekmore [00:31:08]:

And then it's like, oh, I didn't even tithe this month. Or that missionary came and I gave him $20, which is 1 5th of what I spent at TJ Maxx yesterday. Right? Like it's it's we've chosen to invest in something that is fleeting and where treasure is our heart will be also. Right? So it's like, where is my heart? My heart isn't with the things of the Lord. My heart is with these temporal things and it's never enough. Right? Because you have to go back to TJ Maxx every week. Right. Every week.

Heather Creekmore [00:31:43]:

Yes. Like it's not enough. It's not like your hall last week was like, oh, I'm good now for like a year. No. No. You're not. There's always something new. And so it's just interrupting business as usual.

Heather Creekmore [00:31:57]:

Mhmm. Right? The American dream business as usual. So I I truly appreciate Margaret, your book, dying to live, letting go of earthly pleasures to find eternal joy. Because that's what it's about. Right? Like, the you do get a little buzz from your TJ Maxx Hall, especially if it was on clearance. Mhmm. Okay? Shout out for the clearance rack. But there's something bigger.

Heather Creekmore [00:32:22]:

The eternal joy is what we miss so often when we're so and you use the CS Lewis quote in your book. And I I love that quote about just, you know, we're so content to be like, children playing in the mud when God has a beach vacation for us. That's my my paraphrase of CS Lewis. He said it so much more eloquently than that.

Heather Creekmore [00:32:41]:

But it's true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like I said, it makes me wanna scream. I'm like, what is wrong with us? But it is so easy to fall into that trap. And and I'm I'm the first in line to say I struggle. And even even now, I every day, you know, it's like, what am I doing? You know, get back to the source.

Heather Creekmore [00:33:05]:

And and we should want to as Christians, you know, as followers of Christ. Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:33:10]:

Yeah. Get back to the source. Okay. So as we close-up today, what's is can you give one strategy, like, that maybe it's worked for you to help you get back to the source? Like, because I I think I don't think what you're asking is that I mean, you live in a home, obviously. Yeah. Right? I don't think you're saying you should go sell all your possessions and Right. Buy a tent and give all your money

Margaret Jen Burke [00:33:35]:

to you know, like, you're not you're not saying

Heather Creekmore [00:33:37]:

that that's the next step and the only correct next step.

Margaret Jen Burke [00:33:40]:

So what's how do you get started?

Heather Creekmore [00:33:43]:

Well, it was funny because going through, you know, the whole research and and really prayer and and trying to figure out, okay, what is the answer? I know this is wrong, my lifestyle and, you know, all those things that I care about. And so what what next? What, you know, what do I do? And I think first and foremost, there's there's satisfaction, and that's the space that I was living in. And during the process of writing this, I really, for the first time, learned the real definition of sanctification. And so you have 2, like, kind of similar sounding satisfaction and sanctification, and it's like, wow. This is, like, major. And and in those two things, satisfaction is the pursuit of happiness, which is which is the American dream.

Heather Creekmore [00:34:39]:

Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:34:39]:

And sanctification is the pursuit of holiness. You know? Jesus justified us when he went to the cross, but he sanctifies us through our faith and through our own, you know, walk with with him. And and so it's like, okay. In every situation, do I like, what do I want? What is important to me here? Is it happiness or is it holiness?

Heather Creekmore [00:35:05]:

Right.

Heather Creekmore [00:35:06]:

And, you know, you can go out to eat. You can get your nails done. You know, what have you. But it becomes habitual. You know? Like, okay. Now I go out to eat every night or, you know, I get my my $6 coffee, which I did yesterday. So here I am. You know? Here I am talking about it.

Heather Creekmore [00:35:28]:

And so it's like, are are your habits holy? You know? Or so so I've I've really tried to wrestle with that, and that's exactly what it is. When I was writing the book, the publisher was like, well, I don't think wrestle is like a a word that women are gonna wanna hear. And I'm like, well, that's what it is. It is a it is an it is a fight, you know, every day. And so just looking at the little things and the big things, both of those, you know, to to kind of start small and and really look at, you know, okay, which which path am I on? Am I going towards satisfaction, or am I going towards sanctification? And it is hard. Yeah. Obviously, because we're fighting our flesh. Mhmm.

Heather Creekmore [00:36:15]:

The desires. You know? But Hebrews 10 14, which I it it has become like a life verse for me. He has perfected forever those who are being made holy, and that that is what's so freeing in in that in that wrestling of, like, the American dream or God's dream for your life. You will stand before him perfected and complete, not by anything that you did, but because you chose to run towards him, to serve him, because, you know, of what he did on the cross. And I think that's that's what gets me to a space of, okay. I do wanna serve him. I want him to be the center of my world. You know? But like I said, that's a daily thing because then I get up the next morning, and I'm like, let's go to Starbucks.

Heather Creekmore [00:37:14]:

You know? And which is great which is great. You know? But but it's really it's really being self aware. Right. You know? And and just choosing to, you know, live in his presence and realize that he is the only thing that matters

Heather Creekmore [00:37:28]:

Yeah. That's good. Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:37:30]:

And everything. So

Heather Creekmore [00:37:31]:

My like, 2 of my best podcast episodes ever were the in terms of listenership were, do you wanna be hot or holy?

Heather Creekmore [00:37:40]:

That's so funny.

Heather Creekmore [00:37:41]:

Right. And I I revisited it again because it went so well the first time. But Yeah. You know, like, I think that's kind of the question. It's like Yeah. Am I am I striving for hot to be hot? Am I striving holy? Am I striving to be wealthy? Or am I striving to be holy? Am I striving to be comfortable? Am I striving to be holy? Right? That's like the idolatry question. Right? And and there are there are things that we can do. Right? That are They're benign things.

Heather Creekmore [00:38:05]:

Right. They're not necessarily evil things like back to getting your nails done. Right. Like you can get your nails done as a part of a holy life. Right. Or you can get your nails done because your heart's desire is really to be hot. Yeah.

Margaret Jen Burke [00:38:19]:

That's

Heather Creekmore [00:38:19]:

part of the whole package. Right? So it's Yeah. It's constantly that, like, heart motivation check of why am I doing this? What's my motivation? And do I have to do this? I I loved in your junior league chapter. I'll just go back to that real quick. Let me close-up it. In your junior league chapter, I loved your story about getting your Christian influencer outfit just right before you went to the studio. I know. I know.

Heather Creekmore [00:38:41]:

So cute. But I'll let I'll let people go check out your books so they can read that story. But I mean, that's, you know, that's where I was too when I first started speaking. It was like, I've gotta look the part. Yeah. And my motivation would not have been holiness. It would have been, I want you to think I look good. Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:38:58]:

I want you to impress me for me. Right?

Heather Creekmore [00:39:00]:

Yeah. That's that's what I was like. I'm finally getting to do I'm like, to participate in God's work, and that's what I'm worried about. That's what I'm thinking about. And it is, yeah, it is so toxic. And so just just to have this conversation and, you know, to start that ball rolling for other women

Heather Creekmore [00:39:20]:

Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:39:21]:

It's it is so freeing to even, you know, have a sister in Christ who's, like, on on the same page. It's it is so exciting. You know? Hot hot or holy.

Heather Creekmore [00:39:32]:

You know?

Heather Creekmore [00:39:33]:

Yay. I love that. I love that.

Heather Creekmore [00:39:35]:

Well, Margaret, thanks so much for being on the show today. I know everyone can grab your book wherever books are sold, wherever Christian books are sold. Mhmm. It's called Dying to Live. And where can they connect with you?

Heather Creekmore [00:39:48]:

Well, I have an Instagram page, for writing Margaret Jen Burke. There's there's a lot of hard topics on there. So

Heather Creekmore [00:39:57]:

So put a like on them. But I know. I know. Right?

Heather Creekmore [00:40:00]:

Share them, please. Yeah. But yes.

Heather Creekmore [00:40:03]:

Okay. Instagram, Margaret Jen Burke. Margaret, thanks so much for being on the show today.

Heather Creekmore [00:40:07]:

Yes. Thank you so much for having me.

Heather Creekmore [00:40:09]:

Yeah. And thank you for watching or listening today. Hope something today has helped you stop comparing and start living. Mhmm. Bye bye. The compare 2 shows probably part

Margaret Jen Burke [00:40:16]:

of the Life Audio Podcast Network. For more great Christian podcasts, go to live audio dot com.