Do Body Image Issues Make You a Target for Narcissists? With Dr. Tamara Rosier [Podcast Transcript]

Title: Do Body Image Issues Make You a Target for Narcissists?

Podcast Date: September 17, 2024

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Description 

Host Heather Creekmore and Dr. Tamara Rosier offers invaluable insights into navigating relationships with narcissists and understanding the crucial role of boundaries. Here are three key takeaways:

🔹 Boundaries Are Essential: Boundaries are not about controlling others; they are about defining what actions you will take in response to those that affect you. Even Jesus set boundaries to take care of his needs, as reflected in the New Testament.

🔹 Understanding Narcissistic Behavior: Narcissists use others to feed their ego and keep them off balance. This is different from mere selfish behavior, which is more about convenience. Identifying and distinguishing these behaviors is vital to protect your well-being.

🔹 Levels of Problematic Behavior: Not all negative behavior is "toxic." Dr. Rosier introduces the concept of "peccadillos" (minor annoyances), "noxious behavior" (selfish actions), and truly "toxic behavior" (harmful and manipulative). Recognizing these levels helps in managing relationships more effectively.

Tune in to get more insights, personal anecdotes, and strategies for managing relationships and maintaining your mental health. 🎧

Listen to Heather's interview with Dr. Rosier on ADHD and Body Image Issues: https://omny.fm/shows/compared-to-who/could-your-body-image-issues-connect-to-adhd-featu

Connect with Dr. Tamara Rosier: https://www.tamararosier.com/ or at https://www.miadhd.com

Check out Dr. Rosier's new book here: https://amzn.to/4ensduq

(Amazon affiliate link)

Learn more about coaching: https://www.improvebodyimage.com

Shop for cute podcast merch: https://www.improvebodyimage.com/shop

Mentioned in this episode:

Dr. Stephanie Sarkis research on narcissism.

Chuck DeGroat's book, "When Narcissism Comes to Church"   (Amazon affiliate link)

Outline

03:46 Why You Might Be Attracted To A Narcissist

10:24 Narcissism Vs. Egocentrism

15:07 Narcissism In The Church

19:59 Detecting Narcissistic Behavior

24:31 Toxic, Noxious, or Peccadillo?

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:00:02]:

Whenever someone is criticizing you, listen. They're probably criticizing themselves, but it feels a lot better to say it about someone else.

Heather Creekmore [00:00:13]:

That's interesting.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:00:16]:

Anytime a narcissist calls you selfish. Anytime you have boundaries, anytime you do something good, any time you follow God's leading… oh, I don't know who you think you are. Yeah. You're self centered.

Heather Creekmore [00:00:38]:

You know, last time I interviewed doctor Rosier last year, we were talking about ADHD and the connections to body image issues. I just casually mentioned how those of us with body image issues and maybe even ADHD are prime targets for narcissists. And I thought this was something we should all be more aware of, so I invited her back. I think you're gonna really enjoy our interview today. So go check that out. Hey. We're gonna be starting a new session of body image freedom framework coaching in October. Many of the women who have gone through the 40 day body image journey with us may decide to continue on with coaching.

Heather Creekmore [00:01:17]:

But I wanna invite you if you've considered intensive body image coaching. This is your chance to be part of one of our groups. They start mid October. Reach out to me, [email protected] for more information or go to the website https://www.improvebodyimage.com/. Also, we have cool podcast merch. I just got one of the dad hats. It's pretty cool. It says compared to who.

Heather Creekmore [00:01:37]:

Go check that out at https://www.improvebodyimage.com/shop. Let's get to today's episode. Welcome to Compare to Who, the podcast to help you make peace with your body so you can favor God's rest and feel his love. If you're tired of fighting body image the world's way, compared to who is the show for you. You've likely heard lots of talk about loving your body, but my goal is different. Striving to fall in love with stretch marks and cellulite is a little silly to me. Instead, I want to encourage you and remind you with the truth of scripture that you are seen, you are known, and you are loved no matter what your size or shape. Here, the pressure is off.

Heather Creekmore [00:02:17]:

If you're looking for real talk, biblical encouragement, and regular reminders that God loves you and you're not alone, You've come to the right place. I hope you enjoy today's show, and, hey, tell a friend about it. Doctor Tamara Rozier, thank you so much for being on the compared to who show today.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:02:38]:

Oh, it's great to be here. Thank you.

Heather Creekmore [00:02:40]:

Well, our last conversation last year was so much fun for me because we did talk about ADHD, and you wrote an awesome book on ADHD called Your Brains Not Broken. And we had a great conversation around things like rejections, sensitive dysphoria, and things that kinda tend to connect to body image issues in a lot of ways. And I know I've heard from a lot of women that, you know, they're kinda starting to look into whether or not they do have ADHD because they didn't see the connections before. So that was an incredible conversation. If anyone hasn't listened to that, I encourage you to go listen to that conversation. But you made a comment. Oh, you just stepped in it, but it went a good way. But you made the comments that women or people with ADHD are good targets for narcissists.

Heather Creekmore [00:03:37]:

Yes. And so I just had to have you come back today and tell me what that meant. Yeah. So that's why I'd love to start today.

Why You Might Be Attracted To A Narcissist

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:03:46]:

Yeah. So it's not just people with ADHD. It's people who are very empathetic. It's people who want to please. And so those are the people who, to be honest, are attracted to narcissists. So it's a two way street. It's not just a narcissist sees you and says, my first meal.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:04:11]:

They're like, you're attracted to them too.

Heather Creekmore [00:04:16]:

Why? Why is that? Because they seem more confident than us? Is that kind of the, like, I wanna be like that? 

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:04:22]:

No. I think I mean, by the way, the woman who's done a lot of research on this is Stephanie Sarkis.

Heather Creekmore [00:04:29]:

Okay.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:04:29]:

S-a-r-k-i-s. Okay. She's done great work on this. And, so I would recommend, like, if you're, you know, your listeners are like, hey. I need to learn more. She's really the person who does this. I'll put that in there.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:04:46]:

But I think when you're highly empathetic, right, or if you have ADHD, and a lot of people with ADHD are highly empathetic. Okay? The way our brain works is our prefrontal cortex, we went into that in the last one. It's not always online, and that prefrontal cortex just kinda keeps us moving on. It keeps screening out information, and so we tend to rely on the emotional parts of our brain starting with the limbic center. And so what we tend to do is we tend to look past all the narcissistic stuff that they do, and we see the wounded person behind it.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:05:31]:

Because every narcissist is wounded. And I wanna be clear. Let's not vilify the narcissist. They're a wounded child who's acting out. Now I can just hear one of your listeners going, you don't know the narcissist I was married to.

Heather Creekmore [00:05:47]:

He was evil. Yeah.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:05:49]:

But, you know, our worldview kinda holds that that person's still worthy of love and redemption. Right? So I'm not here to kinda make the narcissist, I mean, I personally was wounded by several narcissists, who were very close to me. So I still can get triggered when I'm near a narcissist to the point where my brain's like, oh, we gotta get out of here fast. Right? Because I was one of those people. It's like I saw the sad parts of them. And I wanted to help heal the sad parts.

Heather Creekmore [00:06:27]:

Yeah.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:06:28]:

Oops. That was never my job. That was never my job. And so the thing I really wanna make a point of saying is, people who are attracted to narcissists usually have very poor boundaries. And I was raised with very poor boundaries. And so I didn't know where I stopped and the other began.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:06:53]:

And so I was raised, like, well, if you love Jesus, then you're gonna do everything you can for everyone else around you. And that's not really accurate. We need to let people work on themselves. We need to let them work on their own spiritual journeys. We can't do that for them. And so that's how some of us get sucked in.

Heather Creekmore [00:07:20]:

Yeah. It's just, to what you just said, I remember in a counseling session almost having, like, a very similar conversation with a counselor of “I'm not loving them unless I'm there. I'm not loving them unless I'm involved.” And I remember he used the illustration of, and I don't know if you've watched The Chosen or not, but The Chosen in, I would say the last season or season before, this was kind of one of the parts of the gospels that they depicted. But it was like, Jesus had to flee from his family because they were gonna kill him. And I was like Yeah, never really thought about that before. I guess if even Jesus needed to get away from his family, then, you know, I guess it's okay. Well,

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:08:08]:

Well, Jesus had boundaries. And he showed us boundaries the entire new testament. Because you see him going, hey, I'm tired for the day, folks. I gotta head out. I'm gonna go up to the mountains. I'm gonna take care of myself spiritually. And I'll come back and meet your needs. He knew where others began, and he stopped. And so he was always modeling boundaries.

Heather Creekmore [00:08:39]:

Yeah. That's a really good point.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:08:41]:

And he really challenged other people to have boundaries too.

Heather Creekmore [00:08:44]:

Yeah.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:08:45]:

And so I'm not just applying a modern concept on the new testament. I'm like, no, no, no, Jesus showed us this. So, you know, even, give to Caesar what is Caesar's. That's a boundary. Like, hey. That belongs over there. Keep that over there. So getting healthier boundaries, and I wanna be very clear what boundaries are because a lot of my clients really confuse this.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:09:15]:

People think boundaries are let's say you and I have had beef. I'm like, well, you know what? I'm kinda ticked with her, so I am going to tell her she is no longer allowed to be late when we go out for lunch. Cool story. How am I gonna control that?

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:09:32]:

I can't control you. Yeah. Because another fundamental thing is God gave us each free will. Right? So we can't do that. So boundaries are about what I will do.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:09:46]:

“Heather, I love you, but when you're 20 minutes late, that really is hard on me. So if you're more than 20 minutes late, I'm just gonna leave.” Or, so I'm telling you what I'm going to do. I'm not even angry with you anymore because I don't have to be. I'm just taking control over what I have control over.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:10:08]:

Boundaries with narcissists usually go badly. And that's usually, if you're married to one, what will cause a divorce. Because a narcissist is like, woah. What are you doing here? I don't appreciate any of this.

Narcissism Vs. Egocentrism

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:10:24]:

And you're probably thinking, I have boundaries. Right? And sometimes parents are narcissists. I wanna kinda clarify narcissism from egocentrism.

Heather Creekmore [00:10:38]:

Yes. Please. Please. Give us some definition.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:10:40]:

Because yeah. A lot of Americans throw around narcissism.

Heather Creekmore [00:10:45]:

Yeah.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:10:46]:

And really, America is at a time where everyone's pretty egocentric. And I'm not cutting down America. This is just a cultural observation. So, you know, everyone's taking pictures of their food, taking selfies, like, everything is recorded. There's a lot of projection of who we wanna be.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:11:10]:

Okay? And when we hear something, or, like, well, how does that affect me? That's egocentrism. Okay? Sometimes I might be mad because I'm like, wow, you really inconvenience me, or my expectations were this. That's egocentrism. Narcissism is a whole different thing. Narcissism is like when the person feeds on your ego.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:11:43]:

And it's almost like, have you had experiences with a true narcissist?

Heather Creekmore [00:11:48]:

I think I have. Yes.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:11:50]:

Yeah. There's a different feeling there. It's not just a selfishness. And a self centeredness. It's, I'm going to use you to feed my ego. And so I may have to put you down. I may have to call you fat to kinda keep you off kilter, and a narcissist always keeps the other person off kilter. Narcissists will lie. I have problems with a lot of politicians in the US because they are narcissists.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:12:26]:

And I don't understand, but our system, you almost have to be one to run.

Heather Creekmore [00:12:30]:

It inoculates you from the hurt, I guess, or something. I don't know.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:12:35]:

I don't know. But, I mean, you can tell. And so if, you know, for people who've had a lot of experience, it's hard to sit there and, like, narcissists always have an angle. They'll brag that they can read others like a book. Ironically, they probably can't. But it's part of their facade. When narcissists are talking, they're the hero of every story.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:13:06]:

Yeah. Now I don't wanna confuse this. Sometimes there's some other traits like ADHD, autism, where the person will be talking and they're the hero of every story, that's not, they're not trying to wound other people in this. They're just, it's more of an immature social thing, right? But a true narcissist really wants to keep you off kilter. And they shape shift.

Heather Creekmore [00:13:38]:

Yeah. So my experience, the reason why I think I didn't even see narcissism was because the person wasn't overly put together or polished. She was a little bit of like a free spirit, you know, just her kids, you know, didn't wear shoes sometimes. Just Yeah. Like and and so in my mind, a narcissist was, like, vain. Like a narcissist had to look a certain part and like, that's how I would know that this person was not that.

Heather Creekmore [00:14:14]:

But later in kind of studying this, I realized that wasn't what, like, she valued really what she valued was that people thought that she loved the Bible. And so in a church context, you know, that she got her supply from feeding on people, telling her, you know, how great she was at reading the bible and studying the bible. And then to me, it was, you know, that I wasn't as good at reading the Bible or, like, it was so so subtle and insidious as I look back on it, and I was kinda happy to concede, like, okay. Sure. You're better at reading the Bible than I am. Like, I don't think it's actually a contest, but okay. Sure.

Narcissism In The Church

Heather Creekmore [00:15:07]:

But it just over time it kind of just kept growing into, well, you know, Heather doesn't do this as well. Heather isn't as good at this. Heather is, you know, and mushroomed to, you know, really caused a big conflict in our church congregation. So it was, but it surprised me because I thought narcissism meant vanity and they looked a certain way. I would just be able to spot a narcissist.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:15:36]:

So narcissists have ego, or very fragile egos, and they always have to keep feeding it. So there's always, like, a person they'll try to go, look how much better I am than this person.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:15:53]:

And there's kind of, the word insidious always comes up when someone's describing a narcissist, and it's different from when someone's describing selfish behavior. Right? Because there's a purpose there's a purposeful deconstruction happening.

Heather Creekmore [00:16:10]:

Right.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:16:11]:

By the way, I think DeGroat, is the author. He wrote, Narcissism In The Church. 

Heather Creekmore [00:16:20]:

I haven't read that.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:16:20]:

I Highly recommend it. I don't know if you know this about me. I don't have a problem with people outside of the church acting a certain way. I have big problems when God's people act certain ways. I have higher standards.

Heather Creekmore [00:16:43]:

Right? Absolutely. Right? You should. That's biblical.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:16:46]:

And I see churches full of narcissists. And it makes me angry and breaks my heart at the same time because the narcissist is always image managing. And I'm not sure where God fits into that equation.

Heather Creekmore [00:17:08]:

Yeah. Oh, man. You just kinda went to a hard place again because that's, I mean, that's my people. Right? We're worried about our image.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:17:20]:

Yep.

Heather Creekmore [00:17:22]:

And at what point is there a line that we cross where I mean, egocentrism, I do believe for a lot of women with body image issues, like that's a challenge. And some of that I think is out of woundedness. Right?

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:17:41]:

Yep. Oh, absolutely. And I mean, I have body issues. Right? So I, yeah, I wanna be very kind and gentle and separate that we're not talking that because you care how you look, you're a narcissist.

Heather Creekmore [00:17:54]:

Yeah. Absolutely.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:17:56]:

So, thank you. I really wanna be very clear on that, because that's kind of a woundedness. And so the challenge there is, how do I let God heal those parts of me that are so wounded and broken. And I have my own wounds there.

Heather Creekmore [00:18:21]:

And I think so tell me, you know, tell me how this resonates with your research and, you know, just people you've spoken with or, you know, even counseled. I think there's a lot of women with body image issues that may have been raised by someone who was a narcissist who kind of fed into those body image issues, you know, in one way, shape, or form. Kinda created the beast, if you will. I mean, does that ring true? What have you seen?

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:18:53]:

Absolutely. It rings true. And I remember the goal of the narcissist is to find your weak point and to exploit it.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:19:03]:

And I don't believe this is conscious. It's an unconscious thing to get their own needs met. And so they're looking, this is going to crush you. And, yeah, I have a lot of personal experience there. So yeah. I'm holding back sharing those. Normally, I'm very open, but because I wanna remain respectful to all the parties involved. But I do want you to know, like, that's where the body issue started. And then I'm just not good enough in so many physical ways. Right? Because it's pointed out. But that was already my weakness for the narcissist to exploit.

Detecting Narcissistic Behavior

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:19:59]:

So when you talked about the example from your church, you already had a weakness. What was it?

Heather Creekmore [00:20:08]:

An insecurity around my ability to read or explain the bible.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:20:14]:

Right. Yep. And so the narcissist looks and goes, oh, I see the insecurity. I could snap that like a twig. And you were like, yep, you're right. I'm not that, that's fine. And that's kind of the first stage of you're right. I'm humble about this. That's fine.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:20:33]:

And they're like, not good enough. I need more. Yeah. Do you see how that plays out?

Heather Creekmore [00:20:39]:

Yeah. Well, and I was, I had written a book. I had written my first book around the same time. Yes. And that did not go well.

Heather Creekmore [00:20:48]:

You know, it was very subtle jabs about really not being qualified for that or spending too much time on that, and not other real ministry things I should be doing. That was very self centered to write a book, you know, because it's all about me, not about helping anyone and, you know, and if I was really a bible scholar yeah.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:21:15]:

Let's take that apart for a second. Right? That you were being selfish. Now I know you, and you felt led by God to write that book. But the narcissist took the story and said, look how selfish you are. Who do you think you are? Isn't that quite clever? Because she was pointing out what she does. And something I write about, I well, I put it in the workbook for Your Brain's Not Broken, but whenever someone is criticizing you, listen. They're probably criticizing themselves, but it feels a lot better to say it about someone else.

Heather Creekmore [00:21:59]:

Yeah. That's interesting.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:22:01]:

So that's what she was doing. Anytime a narcissist calls you selfish that's such a, like yeah. Anytime you have boundaries, anytime you do something good, anytime you follow God's leading. Oh, I don't know who you think you are. You're self-centered. Look at her. She thinks she's everything. 

Heather Creekmore [00:22:32]:

Yep. Yep. Okay. This has been so good. We need to wrap this episode up, but can we wrap it up with something like really practical? Like, do you have like a way to spot a narcissist or is there like a litmus test that, you know, I know it's not gonna be fail safe, but if there's something you can do to be like, ask a question of yourself in your relationship to identify, oh, this might be narcissistic behavior.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:22:58]:

Yeah. Okay. So I'm gonna answer it. It's gonna sound a little weird. Okay? It depends if you're in your brain or body. So for me, I get this spidey sense of this person isn't for you, Tamara. Don't. This person isn't for you. This person is trying to use you. That's, like, for me, like, a body thing.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:23:26]:

The brain thing, for those of you who are more in your brain than your body, the brain thing is more if I sit back and I ask myself, okay. You know, the verse and by the way, I'm the worst at memorizing. I do have ADHD. I don't memorize well. I can actually like, I know a ton about the Bible, but can never draw up the verse. Okay? So I'm gonna misquote a verse, but I misquote it to myself all the time, but God knows what I'm talking about. It's the verse that says whatever is whatever is pure, whatever is holy, whatever is righteous.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:24:01]:

Think on these things. And so in my brain, I first center myself and go whatever is pure, whatever is holy, like so I bring it in to get my brain there. Right? So I'm not accusing. I'm just kinda centering myself on God's word. Then I'm like, wait. Now that I'm in this place, does that person match up with these thoughts? Does that make sense to you?

Heather Creekmore [00:24:31]:

Yeah.

Toxic, Noxious, or Peccadillo?

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:24:31]:

Because there's a difference. Like, they're down here, and you'll bring your thoughts up here. And you'll feel the incongruence. And the reason I do those kinds of tests rather than we'll do, are they doing this, this, this, and this? Is because sometimes it can be other things than narcissism. And remember, narcissism is a survival tool. 

And I just wanna be really careful, and by the way, I just beg people to stop throwing around the word narcissist. It's okay to go, that person's very selfish, and I don't wanna be around that selfish behavior. We don't have to call it. In my latest book, I help families break down 3 categories. Is it toxic behavior? Is it noxious behavior? Or is it a peccadillo? And a peccadillo are the small trivial things that just get on people's nerves. Like, leaving cupboard doors open.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:25:39]:

I wish you wouldn't. And by the way, I had so much fun writing about my husband's peccadillo in the book because, and I asked his permission and everything, but, so here's an example of a peccadillo. My husband washes his hands, great, at the kitchen, at the kitchen sink. And instead of reaching for a towel like a normal human would, he just starts baptizing everything by splashing his hands everywhere. And so there's just droplets of water on every surface.

Heather Creekmore [00:26:11]:

That's awesome.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:26:12]:

The window, the everything. Right?

Heather Creekmore [00:26:15]:

Awesome.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:26:15]:

And he's just flapping like a duck. And so that's a peccadillo. Does it bug me? Majorly. But we've been married long enough that it's a peccadillo. That is not noxious behavior.

Heather Creekmore [00:26:31]:

Yeah.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:26:32]:

Noxious behavior is when someone behaves very selfishly and egocentrically. And that's like, they're just thinking about themselves. I'm not doing that for you. That's an inconvenience to me. Or I expect you to do that because my expectations are the only ones that count. That's noxious. That's like, oh, stinky behavior we don't wanna be around. Toxic is the narcissist level. And that's truly, the toxic person is seeking to destroy.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:27:06]:

And so it's okay to just say, this is obnoxious behavior, and I don't wanna be around it. So let's go. Thank you for sharing this example that you used. So if you went back to the scenario, and you're like, you know what? She's just not the kind of person I wanna be around. She's kinda negative, and, wow, she certainly doesn't, you know, want to be with me in a good way. She's not rooting for me. I don't think I want her as a friend.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:27:37]:

Now this person took it to the next level and decided to have lunch on your ego. Right? So I'm hoping that those three levels can help people understand.

Heather Creekmore [00:27:48]:

Yeah.That's really helpful.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:27:49]:

You know, on TikTok, everything's like, here's my toxic trait. I'm like, stop using that word. Yeah. Save it for the truly toxic.

Heather Creekmore [00:27:59]:

Yeah. That's a really good point. And we throw those words around so much. And, yeah, I'll finish our episode with the conclusion of my story. So we left that church and we moved several hours away and lots of relationships were lost. It was actually really sad and traumatic. I think that's a fair word in that situation, and heartbreaking. And months later, I got an apology note, but this is a narcissistic apology. It said, I'm sorry if you were hurt.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:28:33]:

If you were hurt.

Heather Creekmore [00:28:34]:

That you felt hurt. I'm sorry that you felt offended or, you know, all of those words. It wasn't like, I'm sorry I did anything. 

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:28:44]:

But it's to add to this thing. Well, you know, I apologized. I don't know what more she wants. I apologized.

Heather Creekmore [00:28:52]:

Yep. Oh, it's tough stuff.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:28:54]:

I'm just, what I know for a fact.

Heather Creekmore [00:28:56]:

Go for it.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:28:56]:

Okay? Nothing happens that God doesn't use for good.

Heather Creekmore [00:29:01]:

Oh, absolutely. Yep.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:29:03]:

And I really want your listeners to just know nothing happens.

Heather Creekmore [00:29:09]:

Yep. Amen.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:29:11]:

All things work together for good. Yep. And I really plant my flag in that. Because when stuff goes down and I'm not happy about it, I'm like, I am going to trust the God of the universe that nothing happens outside of his sight, and he works everything for good. Yeah. So guess what? That had to happen. And I'm sorry that it happened. I really am. And I'm not just trying to be trite. And I'm sorry for the listeners who are like, you don't know where I am. I'm still in it. Right. Don't give me that crap right right now. Right. I apologize too because not everyone's ready to hear that. And that's that's okay. But I do know you had to go through that. And it gave you insight, probably for next books. It gave you insight to yourself as a writer, as a wife, as a mother, like…

Heather Creekmore [00:30:06]:

Yep. And a new radar for friends. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:30:11]:

Right? And now you know something about people so that you don't and I do wanna say to your listeners, stop hanging out with the wrong people. If they're not on the same level as you are, thinking what is good, what is righteous, what is holy, they will only bring you down.

Heather Creekmore [00:30:31]:

The good words.

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:30:32]:

And it is really okay to break up with friends because you're not on the same wavelength. I wish I could go back and tell younger Tamara that. I didn't learn that until my forties.

Heather Creekmore [00:30:43]:

Yeah. It's a hard lesson to learn. Oh, this is so good. Okay. We could just keep going and going going, but I'm gonna stop us here, And you're gonna come back. You promise me you come back. And we're gonna talk a little bit more about some things that you've written in your new book. Like, like you mentioned the toxicity versus, – 

Dr. Tamara Rosier [00:31:03]:

Noxious

Heather Creekmore [00:31:04]:

Noxious. I’m like, what's that word again? But I also wanna talk about you talk about, like, nervous system stuff. And people with ADHD have these challenges, but there's more of us with trauma or just I just don't even think we're aware of what's going on with our nervous system. So let's talk about that in the next episode. I'm so glad you were here. You can find out all about her books and resources in the show notes and, come back and listen next time. I hope something today has helped you stop comparing and start living. Bye bye.