Body Image Issues During and After Pregnancy: Group Chat [Podcast Transcript]
Mar 04, 2025
Title: Body Image Issues During and After Pregnancy: Group Chat
Podcast Date: March 4 & 7, 2025
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Or Watch the Full Video Interview Here:
Description
How was your body image when you were pregnant? For some, it's freedom. For others, it's terrifying. Today, the Compared to Who? team: Heather, Tara, Presli, Jackie, and Rachel have a group chat about how they felt during pregnancy. They talk about their approaches to gaining weight, trying to do everything "right" by the doctors, the pressures they felt around how much weight to gain (or not gain), and everything in between. This conversation is real talk around the struggles, trials, and frustrations of being pregnant when you have body image issues or when you struggle with food, disordered eating, or have an eating disorder.
They share how they handled weight changes during pregnancy, the pressure they felt to "bounce back," and how they handled frustrations around things not going as planned with the birth, breastfeeding, or even the health of the baby. From gestational diabetes to post-partum depression to trying to "win" at being the "hot mom" - the team covers it all in today's fun and informative group chat.
For some women, body image issues start at pregnancy. If you've felt pressure to bounce back (even a decade after the baby was born), or if you've struggled with how you felt during or after pregnancy, this episode will encourage your heart.
Learn more about Compared to Who? or join the 40-Day Journey by visiting: www.improvebodyimage.com
Other episodes mentioned today:
What is Health (discussion of BMI chart origins): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReC4AtVQu2s
Pregnancy and Body Image: https://comparedtowho.me/body-image-and-pregnancy/
Blog post on the topic: https://comparedtowho.me/coveting-my-neighbors-belly-pregnancy-and-body-image-series/
Transcript
Disclaimer: This transcript is AI-generated and has not been edited for accuracy or clarity.
Heather Creekmore [00:00:02]:
Hey there. Welcome to the compared to who podcast. I'm Heather Creekmore, and I am so excited to be joined today by my team. We are gonna have another group chat, and we're gonna talk all about pregnancy and postpartum body image issues. And I hope that if you are in that season of life or maybe you're getting ready to enter that season of life or maybe coming out of that season of life and feeling like, you did it wrong or something, whatever our culture tells us. I hope that you will find some encouragement here today. So, team, I would love for everyone just to, like, say your name so we can kind of identify your voice as we as we listen, and tell us kinda what you do as part of the Compare to Who team. Let's start with Sarah.
Tara [00:00:51]:
Yes. Oh, good morning. Hello. Good evening. Whenever you're listening, this is so exciting to be here with you guys. I always love our time together and to chat. This is Tara, and I am so just privileged and humbled and absolutely love being a coach for Heather and just being, here to support and provide any type of assistance I can anyway because this is just the most amazing experience having been a participant and a client of hers and now able to just share, with all of you the freedom that I I just gained through this journey with her. So
Tara [00:01:27]:
so it's like to
Tara [00:01:27]:
be here today.
Heather Creekmore [00:01:28]:
Thanks. Jackie, why don't you go next?
Jackie [00:01:31]:
Hello. I'm Jackie, and I am the YouTube manager.
Heather Creekmore [00:01:36]:
And and you are how many months pregnant today?
Jackie [00:01:39]:
I am six months pregnant as of tomorrow.
Heather Creekmore [00:01:43]:
You are. Yeah. So You
Jackie [00:01:45]:
are in it. I'm in the hot seat today.
Heather Creekmore [00:01:47]:
You totally are. Because now, Tara, you are how old is your youngest? She's
Tara [00:01:53]:
Yeah. So my my baby oh, she's 10 now. She's double digits. So yeah.
Heather Creekmore [00:01:58]:
So it's been ten years since you've been pregnant. Oh. Jackie's in it. Rachel, you're not pregnant, are you? Or you wanna make an announcement today? No. No. No. No. No.
Heather Creekmore [00:02:06]:
We are
Rachel [00:02:07]:
that was a beautiful season of life, and I am done with that. My girls are 16, 13, and nine now. So I am nine years out of it but it's still, you know, it's still fresh on my brain I think a little bit. So And
Heather Creekmore [00:02:20]:
what do you do as part of the team?
Rachel [00:02:22]:
Well, I had the honor and privilege of being one of your clients and loved group coaching and the body image freedom framework. It was so fun. And now I am on a mission to try to take this amazing message you have created to the younger generation, to the teenage girls, college girls. We work with them here in Texas, and so I'm just so excited to see where god takes it.
Heather Creekmore [00:02:43]:
Hey. And Presley. Now are you gonna make an announcement today, Presley? It's it's
Presli [00:02:49]:
it's more possible for you. Yeah. No. No.
Heather Creekmore [00:02:55]:
Not today. Okay. Okay. So tell us, what you do on the team, and your your boys are little still.
Presli [00:03:05]:
Yeah. So I monthly handle, like, Instagram and Pinterest and stuff like that and make the post for the podcast and just whatever we're doing at the time. So, like, the forty day journey, if you've seen those things on Instagram, I probably made those, or sent you a message. But, yeah, so that's what I do for the team. I found Heather, I think, listening to another podcast, and I was in the middle of, the body image beast, I think, a year and a half ago now. So, like, I'm a year and a half out. And yeah. So there is hope and freedom.
Presli [00:03:41]:
What else? Oh, yeah. My boys are nine and three, so it hasn't been that long for me. So I still am pretty fresh.
Heather Creekmore [00:03:49]:
Super fresh. Yeah. So my youngest will be 14. So I am I am the furthest out from this experience. And I was trying this morning to just, like, kinda remember. You know, like and I've shared before we've got a couple other episodes I've done on pregnancy and body image, but it's it's been a number of years that I shared before. Like, I remember my arms grew, which was just weird. Like, none of my shirts or my coats fits after I was pregnant with my first.
Heather Creekmore [00:04:20]:
And I remember so for me, having an undiagnosed eating disorder for who knows how many years. For me, pregnancy was, like, the first time in my life when I wasn't on a diet because I Yes. I knew enough to know that being on a diet would not have been good for the baby. And so it was probably the first time since maybe, like, fifth grade that I wasn't dieting. And I remember, like, oh my word. I was I needed meat really badly, all the time. And I was very particular about the temperature of water. Like, my husband ran into a convenience store one time because I needed water, and he brought me a bottle of, like, tepid water.
Heather Creekmore [00:05:10]:
And I threw a fit. I was like Unacceptable. It needs to be cold. I was like, you're gonna have to go back in there. You're gonna do something about this. So I remember some of that stuff, but, like, from a body perspective, like and I shared about this and compared to your book. Like, I remember, like, feeling like I was at Weight Watchers again when I had to weigh in at the doctor's office.
Rachel [00:05:36]:
Yes. Yes.
Heather Creekmore [00:05:37]:
And I remember getting worried as that number went up and up and up. And, honestly, I had, like, my husband's weight in my head, like, that number. And, like, as I got closer and then went past that, it was like, woah. Like, is this okay? And then I remember afterwards so I think it was I cannot remember what celebrity it was now. That's horrible. But with my furs, there was some celebrity that had a baby, like, within a week. And so I remember every time I went to the grocery store, I would see, like, where she was at postpartum. And she and we're gonna talk about this too, I hope, like, bounce back.
Heather Creekmore [00:06:22]:
Like, she bounced back, like, super fast. And so it was like, oh, well, if she did that already, then, like, I have work to do. So there's just there's so many layers to this and where I would love to start our conversation today. I think to just maybe let's, like, let's just think about encouraging and talking about what happens when you're in pregnancy where Jackie is right now? Like, this feeling you have about your body. Go ahead, Jackie. Yeah. Jump in.
Jackie [00:06:51]:
I can I can start? I I would say for me, just to go back a little bit. So I I didn't mention this, but I have a three and four year old as well. So this is my third pregnancy. And as many women know, every pregnancy is different. But I think that pregnancy has been the thing that God has used to initiate my recovery from what I thought was food issues, but now I know our body image issues. And so the few years before I got pregnant, you know, I've I was in a larger body most of my life, but the few years before getting pregnant, I was smaller. And I would say I had a lot of disordered behaviors. And so when I got pregnant, it was that initial, like, oh, okay.
Jackie [00:07:31]:
It's okay to not diet, but I was exercising heavily during my pregnancy. And I was really nervous about the numbers on the scale. And like you said, the doctor feeling like weight watchers, that's such a good description because I dreaded my appointments. Like and and and just because of that, just because I had to step on the scale, like, all the excitement of seeing the ultrasound, it kind of was all diminished until after the fact when I could calm down. But that feeling of, like, shame that comes with, oh, did I gain the right amount? Is this the recommended amount? Am I doing it right? You know? And I think also I experienced a lot of sickness with all three of my pregnancies. And so just that feeling of being totally out of control with what happens, but at the same time feeling like somehow it's all your fault. It's sort of a cognitive dissonance of, like, this isn't my fault, but it feels like it's my fault. So there's a lot of shame even though I feel completely out of control, and it can it just feels really messy.
Jackie [00:08:31]:
And yeah. And like I said, they've all been different. I can talk more later about what this one has been like compared to others, but that was sort of my initial experience with pregnancy. I mean, I just felt like, oh, I still have a lot of work to do. And actually being pregnant is when I first joined Celebrate Recovery in a food issues group because I thought I am out of control. I can't gain weight the right way in pregnancy. Like, that was when it all sort of spiraled for me.
Heather Creekmore [00:08:56]:
Wow. That's really, really good. I just wanna point out something you said that just I thought was really good. So it's like I think we we have a ton of information. Like, we were joking the other day about the pregnancies. What was it called? The baby center emails, which I don't think are even a thing anymore. I think they come from someone else. But, like, so, you know, nineteen years ago, when I was pregnant for the first time, I remember getting the baby center emails.
Heather Creekmore [00:09:22]:
And, you know, they said, like, today, your baby is a size of a grapefruit. Today, your baby is a size of a kiwi. Right? And that was, like, so exciting. And I also remember them saying little things like, you know, today, you might have a pain in your right arm. And if you're like, I do have a pain in my right arm, like, pregnancy? So but but because we have so much information, there is this sense that because I'm so informed, I have responsibility. I have to do this correctly. There's a path to follow. I have to do all the things.
Heather Creekmore [00:09:52]:
And then you're so right, Jackie. Like I never felt more out of control in my life because it was like know what my body's doing. Like, where's my hair going? Why are my arms growing? Like, what in the world? Like, I have no control over this.
Jackie [00:10:07]:
Yes.
Heather Creekmore [00:10:07]:
Right? So that's that's, that's that's solid. Friendly, jump in.
Presli [00:10:13]:
So, yeah, I just what Jackie said reminded me of, like, when I was pregnant the first time nine years ago, I was really young, and I don't know if I'm goofier than the average person. But, yeah, I so when I got pregnant, I thought it was my job to grow the baby, that I needed to eat I needed to eat a lot. So I gained 90 pounds my first pregnancy, and I was eating a lot. And my doctor never said anything to me. So that just made me think of, like, how much it matters, your doctor. Like because my doctor never said a word. Like, she didn't say what what are you doing at home or anything like that. And then my second pregnancy, the doctor was Samuel, my youngest.
Presli [00:10:50]:
He every appointment, he was, like, just hammering on the weight. Oh, you've gained this much. You know, slow it down. You don't actually need to eat anything extra. I'm like, okay. So every time I went to see him, I would actually know I was about to get in trouble. So I think it really matters too about your doctor and their personality and beliefs and everything can really influence how you feel and even what you gain or don't gain.
Heather Creekmore [00:11:15]:
How stressful that is too. Right? Like, if that's the other thing, like, you're supposed to make sure you're not stressed. It's like, but I'm stressed. I'm not going to the doctor. Tara, jump in.
Tara [00:11:26]:
Yeah. Oh my gosh. And it just it brings me back and I it's it's so crazy because I'm ten years out. Right? And I just I can still feel the emotions of going through these experiences that you girls are talking about now. And and as you were talking, Jackie, and then, you know, mentioning the to having the different doctors, it reminds me too of there's just this this state of ambivalence that we are in our entire pregnancy. It's like these two paradox emotions completely, and, like, this tension. So on the one hand, there's this, like, I'm growing this life in this beautiful experience that, like and for some women, they've worked like, it's been harder to get pregnant. Right? Like, with my first son, it was really hard for me to get pregnant.
Tara [00:12:10]:
He's 13 now, and it was come to find out, and and like you said, Presley, it was the blessing of the doctor I had. I went to see her, and it was during the time when I was doing extreme dieting to the point of, I'm sure you all remember, the master cleanse or the lemonade diet. I had been doing that previous to that. So I was I was literally not eating food for a while, and I had gotten down to, you know, a smaller weight. But, you know, if I went to any doctor, I was in what they would have called, like, my, don't even get me started on BMI. But I was in the upper range of my BMI still after doing a the master the MasterCleanse lemonade diet for I think I did it for almost twenty one days because this particular, you know, diet was safe for forty days. But that's a whole another podcast. Right? So but I I mentioned all this because I remember going into that doctor and her saying to me, you know, so kindly and so lovingly, like, sweetie, you need to go home and eat some ice cream.
Tara [00:13:10]:
Like, you need to gain some weight. Like, your your body your body's too small. Like, you're not it doesn't feel safe to have a baby. And, you know, she didn't necessarily use those words and terms, but it was really, gosh. It was really, like, I just I remember I think I even cried in the office because, first of all, I felt like someone was giving me permission to actually eat foods that I hadn't eaten forever, and there was such joy in that. And then I was crying because I was terrified because I was absolutely terrified. I can't eat ice cream. I can't eat.
Tara [00:13:38]:
You're telling me I have to let my body get bigger. And it's like, I knew once the baby started to grow, there'd be no dieting. Once I knew I was pregnant, I would have to accept it. But before I'm pregnant, I have to I have to get bigger? You mean, like, I have to let myself get bigger even before I'm growing a life? Like, no. No. No. No. It's only okay if I'm growing the life inside me, and, like, that dissonance, and that, like you said, Jackie, that dissonance, and that ambivalence of, like, there's this beautiful life growing inside me, and the culture and the world around has been telling me my whole life that gaining weight is a bad thing, that being in a larger body is a bad thing.
Tara [00:14:14]:
So how do I reconcile that I have to have this larger body? And it's good for my baby, but yet it's bad for me, and it's bad for the way the world looks at me, or it's people are or what will people think? And then to top that off, we have the comparison of we know every woman's body changes differently in pregnancy. So I always joke around with people, like, my earlobes got bigger in pregnancy. Like, every part of me just whoosh. And, and that was really hard too because I'd go into stores, and there'd be these women, and I'd look at the back of them. You can't even tell they're pregnant. Then they turn around with this little baby bump, and there I am thinking, oh my gosh. Like, I can't even get I can't even get my shoes on. I can't wear shirts like you, Heather, with the arms.
Tara [00:14:58]:
I mean, it was every part of me. So, it's just that that tension is such a hard place for us to live in, and there's guilt and shame with that too because here I am supposed to be saying thank you, lord, for this beautiful gift you've given me, something that means everything to me. And yet at the same time, I'm terrified, and I feel bad about it.
Heather Creekmore [00:15:17]:
I I really appreciate you pointing that out, Tara, because I get emails all the time from women who tell me things like my husband doesn't want me to get pregnant and have another baby because he doesn't want me to gain weight again. Yikes. Or or I don't want to because I'm afraid. Like, okay. I did okay, quote, unquote, whatever that means. So, you know, I didn't gain that much or I lost it quickly or whatever, but I did okay the first time or the second time. But, oh, I don't know. I'm gonna be older this time.
Heather Creekmore [00:15:46]:
Like, what's gonna happen? Like, all of those fears are very real. And it would be very overly simplistic and potentially cruel to be like, well, just remember, like, what a magical, beautiful, amazing thing you're doing. Like when you hold up having a baby compared to having a bigger body, like, of course, the one is more important than the other. Right? And I think everyone in that spot knows that. Right? And it just adds guilt and shame onto like, oh, I'm embarrassed that I feel this way. Like, I feel ashamed that I feel this way. But I think until you can you know, I did an amazing episode with doctor Dan Allender. And part of the gist there, we were talking about marriage, not this stuff, but but you gotta name that stuff and acknowledge it Yes.
Heather Creekmore [00:16:33]:
In in order in order to process. So I think, you know, if you're listening today and you're just like, oh, I feel that. Like, you don't have to just stuff it and, like, I don't know, put a Christian band aid on it. Like, no. I shouldn't feel that way. No. If you feel that way, like, it's better, healthier to just work through it, talk about it. I mean, I'm through it.
Heather Creekmore [00:16:52]:
Even working through it, that sounds too overly simplistic. To be in it, let me put it that way, to fit in it. Rachel, what are you thinking?
Rachel [00:17:01]:
Yeah. As I was looking thinking back on my pregnancy, first of all, those of you that are listening today, I'm just so excited that you are, going through your pregnancy with this new framework of mine. Like, this kind of information didn't exist when I was pregnant. You know? For women going, it's okay to gain weight. It's okay. Because all I was hearing, was just the overwhelming message of, yes, stay as small as you can. Do not gain any weight. And for me, now that I see now that I look through through the lens of body image freedom, now that I have not arrived.
Rachel [00:17:32]:
I've I've started this new journey. This I'm two years in of this. I looked at that as this competition where I had to win, and I had to be this anomaly that they go, look at her. She's so small. Like, she hasn't gained I mean, I'm telling you, I would, like, try to eat as little as I could before I went. Same as, like, a normal regular dog take off the Apple Watch when I got weighed. I wanted my pee to be the clearest. Like, what is what is up with that? But now that I see I have so many, people pleasing tendencies that are tied to so many deeper issues, I can tell that I wanted to be accepted and and and praised and applauded for my efforts.
Rachel [00:18:11]:
Like, you are winning. You are doing good at this. And the whole time, like, Jackie, like you said, it was this shameful, pressureful situation rather than, oh my goodness, God, you are growing a life in me. That I didn't have that. Oh, you know, it was more like, okay. I have got to do so good, and then I have to bounce back. Whatever the world that means. Whoever came up with that phrase is crazy.
Rachel [00:18:33]:
I mean, would you ever read that in the Bible? No. What is that? You know? And so I I wish and I don't wish I was pregnant now, but I wish that I had the framework then to go through a pregnancy with the lens of a grateful heart and and and be able to see where I was really bowing down to cultural standards of, like, body worship because I was totally doing that. And I I even remember writing a letter to myself, in my third pregnancy. So I was 33, and I and I also remember going, Jesus died at this age. Like, what am I doing having a baby? I don't know. I just thought that was funny. But I I remember going, okay. I know that I'm gonna freak out after this baby's born because my body's gonna change.
Rachel [00:19:13]:
So I'm gonna write this note. And I I I can see that this was God's hand trying to show me that there is there is more. There is more. But it was me, like, trying to take an ibuprofen to cure cancer. This this letter that I wrote to myself was not going to make it all go away and be better after. But I remember writing, like, don't forget these stretch marks are because, you know, she was growing in you. And don't forget that your weight, even if it's higher, you'll work it off and it'll be and so I I was like now thinking, like, I see that letter as a desperate as a desperate cry to go, okay. Something can change, but that wasn't the way to do it.
Rachel [00:19:52]:
I didn't have the biblical framework to work through that. But I I can see how it was just a shameful pressure filled situation instead of, instead of something different. So
Jackie [00:20:03]:
Yeah. Yeah. Rachel, I love that you brought up
Heather Creekmore [00:20:06]:
the word.
Rachel [00:20:06]:
I'm sorry. I think Siri was hearing me.
Jackie [00:20:08]:
Oh, it's alright.
Rachel [00:20:09]:
Heather, what did you say? Can you say it one more time?
Jackie [00:20:13]:
Oh, I was jumping in, Rachel. I I just was saying I'm I'm so glad you brought up well, two things. You mentioned this wasn't always available. Right? So in my first two pregnancies, I wasn't on yeah. I wasn't informed of any of this. So I was still very much like, this is you know, I have to follow the guidelines. And Heather does some really good episodes on agency, and I think part of my story has just been a complete lack of agency. I cannot trust myself.
Jackie [00:20:40]:
I have to do what the doctor says. You know, they're the authorities. And if I don't, you know, if I don't do it right, then I I somehow have done something wrong. And I think there's, like, Presley, you said, like, you're in trouble. Right? You feel like I've done something where I'm gonna be scolded.
Presli [00:20:54]:
Oh, yeah.
Jackie [00:20:56]:
And the the other thing you mentioned was that competition, feeling that, like, I'm gonna be the unicorn. I'm gonna do this differently. Yeah. And I it's funny because this pregnancy, I actually started off in a much bigger body than I did with my other two. And, you know, any sort of search online will reveal to you that when you start off bigger, you don't need to gain weight. And I'm putting your quotes there. Like, you can gain just maybe 10 pounds. And I took that to heart as, like, I cannot gain more than that.
Jackie [00:21:28]:
Like, the and maybe I'll maybe I'll even lose weight while I'm pregnant. And I'm not I'm not pursuing that, but there is that background noise of, like, I could be the one who comes out of pregnancy and has lost weight. And you get all these anecdotes from people who are well meaning, but they're like, oh, I have a friend who was overweight and and she didn't gain anything in her pregnancy. You know? All her body weight just moved to the baby and you just you hear all this noise and it's you think I have to do that or I have to do better. And that's the comparison trap too. Right? Where it's like, I'm gonna do the best I'm gonna be the best pregnant woman that has ever existed. And, you know, it's it's just gonna be different for me. And then we let ourselves down.
Jackie [00:22:09]:
Right? Because we can't we can't do that.
Heather Creekmore [00:22:12]:
Yeah. Yeah. That's that's good. I was thinking about the whole juxtaposition between, like, I am more afraid of being scolded by the doctor than I am of, you know I don't I don't even know what the right juxtaposition is, but it's like, what the doctor says matters so much that I will tune everything else out. And, again, not that you don't listen to
Rachel [00:22:36]:
your doctor. Right? Like, I
Heather Creekmore [00:22:37]:
don't I don't I hope it doesn't sound extremist. Right? Like, I mean, very glad I had good medical care, and I had four c sections. So extremely glad I had good medical care. Right? But there are some things that you just know about your own body and about what makes your body feel good. And I actually think and I did an episode on this, maybe a year ago. You know, like, no one gets upset about pregnancy cravings. Right? Like, that's an assumed part of pregnancy. Right?
Tara [00:23:06]:
Yeah.
Heather Creekmore [00:23:06]:
And so it's like the one season of your life where it's like, oh, if I'm craving pickles, then the baby needs sodium, so I have to eat the pickles. Right? That's true. And so, like, if but then, like, three days after your pregnancy, like, I'm craving pickles. I can't be craving pickles. I mean, not that pickles are the controversial food, but you know what I'm saying. It's like all of a sudden food craving's bad. And so, you know, embracing, like, this opportunity during pregnancy to actually tune in, be attuned to your body, and then remembering that after pregnancy, right, that it's okay. Presley, you were gonna jump in.
Heather Creekmore [00:23:43]:
I don't I might have derailed the conversation from where you were gonna go, but you're No.
Presli [00:23:46]:
That's actually perfect. That's exactly what I was thinking. It came to mind while Rachel was talking. Like, if you're like, when I was getting pregnant with my or my second or I was trying to anyway, I thought it's gonna be such a relief from dieting. I can finally stop worrying about losing weight for nine months.
Heather Creekmore [00:24:03]:
I'm
Presli [00:24:03]:
gonna be able to let loose and enjoy my life and eat when everyone else is eating and eat whatever they're eating, and I can do, you know, whatever I want, you know, whatever that means. Like, I can eat when I'm hungry. It's allowed. I don't have to be counting calories. I don't have to watch my weight. But, I mean, maybe some people still think that while they're pregnant, but that's what I was thinking. I was like, I need this break. So, yeah, if I had been like I if I had been like that in my everyday life, I think I already would have been such a happier person just being allowed to eat like I am.
Heather Creekmore [00:24:37]:
Yes. Allowed. Presley, allowed. I mean, that goes back to what Jackie said with agency. Yeah. Right? Allowed to eat. Yes. Like, that's a whole different episode.
Heather Creekmore [00:24:50]:
But Feels great. Sit with that for a second. Yeah. Tara, you're gonna jump in.
Tara [00:24:57]:
Yeah. No. I was just like I I was thinking about that, you know, that that that even more had more complications to this tremendously emotional time in our lives and just, like, the hormones. And as we were, like, saying before, like, the ambivalence and all the feelings is then you have this element of the health piece too. And we I think we've come to a point now, and I think, Heather, you do such a beautiful job of of speaking to this on your podcast and stuff as as how health has really become part of our body image issues as well. Right? It is all it's all together. And I think one of the the scary things about when you're in this situation and how we and I love how you talked about agency, And, Jackie, how you mentioned that in the the podcast she did, because you go to the doctors and then you're you're labeled and you're put in these things like your weight is high risk. Your age makes you high risk.
Tara [00:25:51]:
You gain more than this range that they tell you, and it's too much. It's overweight. And it's like, immediately, it's I'm bad. I'm wrong. I'm failing. Me. Me. Me.
Tara [00:26:04]:
And none of us until I'm I I know from I speak for me, but I know we can all relate. None of us ever thought to question, are the measurements part of the problem as well? And I know I I I I always go back to, like, the BMI thing because I feel like I was so fixated on that when I was pregnant. I was very, very obsessed with that. Had no idea what the BMI was. And for all y'all who if you haven't had the listen to Heather's amazing podcast where she really breaks down what that number is and how it is absolutely not a measure of health. And so what what was just so hard for me is that I, even, you know, even when I was trying to get myself to be in this perfect weight category, even when I started to eat so that I could get pregnant and I was able to get pregnant, I was so terrified of gaining weight that from the moment I got pregnant, I was so terrified of gaining weight, and I was so terrified if something happened to my child if I didn't do everything perfectly. So it was like I literally
Heather Creekmore [00:27:05]:
Yes.
Tara [00:27:06]:
Did everything. I got off my antidepressants because I was terrified of what that could do. Never understanding the stress and what my mental state was gonna be like during being pregnant and how that could affect my baby as well. And, like, again, that can be a whole another podcast. But, like, I followed the the diets. I did the babysit. Like, I did the books. I did everything I possibly could, and I just wanted to share this.
Tara [00:27:31]:
And Jackie and I have had a chance to talk about this with her pregnancy now. It's just like, that was one of the hardest pregnancies for me. My son was born premature. He was born two months early. He was born with a kidney problem that needed surgery at a year old. He ended up at 18 getting diagnosed with retinoblastoma cancer that he is doing wonderfully. He's 13. You know, he's he's it's a it's it's all beautiful.
Tara [00:27:56]:
Thank you, Jesus. Now but I say all these things because when I look back on that pregnancy, I I controlled it. I stressed over it. I did everything that I thought was perfect. I gained the exact amount of weight. I was always in the right frame, and I still even ended up getting just gestational diabetes. And I remember the doctors being, like, almost baffled by me. Like, this is this is so strange.
Tara [00:28:21]:
Like, you don't fit the profile. You're not obese. You're not overweight. Like, you're not you're young. I was only 30 at the time, so I was still not high risk. And I just share all these things because, you know, kind of the the me coming off of that pregnancy, I remember I didn't have as much weight to lose, and yet I immediately felt the pressure to lose the weight, get back to the pre baby body. Like, you've got to do something drastic. Like but I couldn't do cleanses.
Tara [00:28:50]:
I couldn't do fasting. I couldn't do strict diets because now I wanna feed my baby. Right? I need to produce milk. And I just contrast that with my second pregnancy where my daughter, it was like I I was like they had me doing, like, progesterone shots because they couldn't figure out why my first baby was, premature. And they were like, I you know, you just need to eat. And the doctor, she was so great. She gave me a brisket. So it's kinda more like, you depressed my second round.
Tara [00:29:17]:
Like, this is great. I'm gonna enjoy it. I'm gonna eat the foods. I had gestational diabetes anyway, so I kind of already know how to eat, and, you know, I'll just it it is what it is, God. I'm gonna give it more to you, and I sort of had this mentality. But, what happened was then I gained so much more weight. So after I had the baby, it was like during the pregnancy, I had this allowance to eat. I love that you said that, Prez.
Tara [00:29:42]:
Like, I allowed myself, and it was the most it was such a different pregnancy than before.
Rachel [00:29:48]:
Yeah.
Tara [00:29:48]:
And I had so much more peace and so much less stress. But my daughter was 12 old, and I hadn't lost the baby weight. And that is when my eating disorder really kicked off. That was the beginning of what I would say would be my struggle and my journey, you know, over the last, you know, ten, you know, nine years or so was not being able at one year. Nine months up, nine months down. Uh-oh. I'm past that nine month mark. I nope.
Tara [00:30:15]:
I failed. I'm I and that it's hard.
Heather Creekmore [00:30:19]:
Well, I was I was thinking about a couple realities here. I I do actually think for anyone postpartum, maybe you guys can tell me whether or not I experienced this. I'm talking to a friend of mine, a good friend right now who is about at that nine month mark. And I feel like something really weird happened for me at that nine month mark. Like, it was and maybe start part of it was psychological, right, where it's like I did have the nine month up, nine months down, like, mentality from culture or whatever. But I also think, like, hormones were shifting so much, and, you know, and I I don't I just I vividly remember that being, like, a line in the stand where I was like, oh, this is, like, this is the hardest it's ever been. But I also had gestation diabetes. And so with my first, I was definitely not someone who didn't look pregnant from the back.
Heather Creekmore [00:31:10]:
Like, most people came up to me and said, you have you're having twins. Right? Like, nope. Just one baby in there. And and I, you know, I I was in an eating disorder. I was a kickboxing instructor, like, I who taught aerobics classes until, like, she couldn't bounce anymore. Like, that was where I was coming from. And when I had Zach, my oldest, they told me that they had never seen that much water. They had to break my water because I had to be induced.
Heather Creekmore [00:31:41]:
They had never seen that much water come out of a human being.
Jackie [00:31:45]:
Oh, wow.
Heather Creekmore [00:31:47]:
And he was nine pounds four ounces. He was big. And but I never got diagnosed with gestational diabetes. I think for the same reason, as you mentioned, Tara, like, I have a small body and I didn't fit the profile or whatever. But then by my third, I was still small, but it was just clear, like, you know, from the task that I had gestational diabetes this time. And then that led me back to dieting. Right? Because then you have to send your food log to the doctor every week.
Jackie [00:32:18]:
Yes.
Heather Creekmore [00:32:19]:
And then I am hyper aware of every single little thing and what it does to my blood sugar. And, I mean and now, you know, I was just reading something last night about a woman who got a, a CGM, a con a continuous glucose monitor, during her pregnancy and how, like, the, you know, the drink the orange Kool Aid test failed her, but the CGM said she had gestational diabetes. And so she was able to, like, kind of fight for a fight for her right to have gestational diabetes. I don't know why you'd wanna do that. But that, like, the orange drink test didn't didn't matter or whatever. But so there's just so many health related things to what you're saying, Tara, where it's like, there's fear around that, and you want to manage that correctly. And and I'll share share this anecdotally. So with my fourth so I had four babies in just, like, right under five years.
Heather Creekmore [00:33:14]:
My my oldest turned five five months after my youngest was born. So literally, I had four, four, and under. Wow. And, after my third, I had gestational diabetes, and they were like, you're gonna have it with your fourth. Like, it's only been eighteen months you have it. And I was like, I do not wanna have it. I'm not gonna have it. And so I drank the Kool Aid, and I walked laps of that hospital.
Heather Creekmore [00:33:41]:
You're turning in every so I was walking the solid hours. Oh my gosh.
Jackie [00:33:46]:
I get it.
Heather Creekmore [00:33:46]:
And I passed that test by one point, and they were like, we don't really think you passed. I'm like, I passed. It's just good to pass. So, anyway, every doctor is probably upset that I shared that strategy, but Yeah. I got that.
Jackie [00:34:00]:
But the the metrics mean so much when you're pregnant. Right? It's like that that feeling of pass or fail. So, like, I have you know, like I said, I started this pregnancy larger, so I was tested earlier for gestational diabetes, you know, because of my weight. And I I passed it, but it was just like it's just that fear. Right? The fear of, like, I have to check all the boxes. And if I don't check all the boxes, then somehow I've done something wrong. And we get so wrapped up in that, and and other things too, like like preeclampsia. So my doctor recommended because of my weight, I should maybe consider taking baby aspirin during my pregnancy.
Jackie [00:34:35]:
Now mind you, I haven't had it with my other two pregnancies. There's no history of it in my family. And in fact, I have a very low blood pressure tip typically. So I I said no. Like I said, I'm not gonna do that, but I'm in a different place now. If they had said that to me in my second pregnancy, I would have done it, and I would have been so worried. And, you know, I think and and again again, not to, you know, bring down the doctors. Like, they're doing their job.
Jackie [00:34:57]:
Right? But it's just those are the measures. And the more information we have, the more scared we feel. Like, I'm gonna fail. I'm gonna mess it up. It's gonna be my fault. Something's gonna happen to my baby, And it's all gonna be on me. And we're so there's so much shame and fear that just pile on during this experience. I mean, there's there are so many different directions I wanna go with this, but I just think those are the two themes I think I keep hearing consistently in our answers.
Jackie [00:35:25]:
It's like Yeah. I'm I'm ashamed. I'm afraid. You know? I'm not doing something right. And isn't that just diet mentality at the utmost anyway? Like, I'm not doing something right, and therefore, my body's not right, and I'm not right. You know? It just Yeah. Just kind of exacerbates in pregnancy.
Heather Creekmore [00:35:42]:
Did anyone else have a miscarriage? You had one, Rachel? I had one between baby two and baby three.
Rachel [00:35:50]:
Yeah. Mine was between one and two. Yeah. And, so that was a whole that was a whole another level of things. Mhmm. But something you had said, Jackie, is about control, and that was even something the Lord was working with me on today. I mean, control is still something that I'm trying to have. If I can control my environment enough, then I can feel happy.
Rachel [00:36:10]:
And if I can control my kids enough, then things will go well. And if I can control what you think of me, then I'll be safe. You know? And all of that, I wish I had this knowledge then, but that was all of I was trying to control your perception of me and control how because I was on a stage. I was leading worship. I was on a jumbotron every Sunday, and people Wow. I share this in my story when I when Heather interviewed me, but there was a guy that came up. We had announced my pregnancy probably, like, I don't know, twenty weeks in. I was kinda still in
Presli [00:36:43]:
the, like,
Rachel [00:36:44]:
private stage. Yeah. And he came up after he's, like, in his fifties. I don't really even know him that well, but he was like, I'm so glad to know you were pregnant because I saw you gaining weight, and I was just really wondering what was going on.
Tara [00:36:56]:
And Oh, boy. No.
Rachel [00:36:58]:
I was like, I kinda wanna punch you in the face.
Heather Creekmore [00:37:00]:
You know? I did it, but I said I said, yeah. We're pregnant.
Rachel [00:37:04]:
And thankfully, the Lord just, like, helped me to have grace in that moment. I was like, we're so excited. But then I was like, that really made me so mad, you know, that someone is caring. First of all, if I'm gaining weight, what does my weight have to do with you? And then it was the pressure of, okay, now you've had the baby. You have to get back on the stage. You've got photoshoots. You've got stuff to do. So sorry, baby.
Rachel [00:37:25]:
I'm glad you're here, but, like, I need to really keep focusing on me. And I was thinking that breastfeeding would make me lose weight. I was the the non unicorns who gain it, you know, and I was like, why
Heather Creekmore [00:37:36]:
am I gaining
Rachel [00:37:36]:
it? And they're losing it. Like, I don't have to do anything, you know. It's just falling off. And so but I see, Jackie, like you said too, it's like this is these were just the steps that God was taking me to get me to the end of myself. It was then that was even nine or yeah, nine years ago. And then he got still this is just a process of sanctification over and over and over, but I'm still learning how. I'm still trying to grip control, but it was heightened heightened during that during that season.
Heather Creekmore [00:38:02]:
Yeah. That's good. Press.
Presli [00:38:06]:
Oh, yeah. Earlier, I was just thinking about how, it feels so good to be free with food while you're pregnant. If you're like me and you thought getting pregnant would be a fun free time. And then how but how much the moment you have the baby, the pressure is on. You have to get it off because everybody's looking. And, like, Rachel, that guy, like, why are we looking at each other like that? Why? Yes. It'll be nice when we can unlearn those behaviors and those comments and just let people be in their bodies.
Heather Creekmore [00:38:38]:
Yeah. That's good. Tara?
Tara [00:38:40]:
Yeah. And I just wanted to just thinking for for the women out there too who, you know, as we're sharing, like, who are where, you know, Jackie is and, you know, where Presley is even a few years out. But also, you know, to to speak to, like, Rachel, you and me who have, like, ten years more out from our babies, it's almost like that pressure doesn't go away to get the postpartum body. It's like that never goes away. No matter how far you are Never. Hurting your babies, it never leaves us. This pressure our culture tells us that it is like a badge of honor. You are a success.
Tara [00:39:19]:
There is, like, this self self glorification and being like, not only this is this was my thing. Not only did I get back to my pre baby body, I got thinner.
Heather Creekmore [00:39:31]:
In this
Tara [00:39:32]:
when I hit 40, I was probably at my thinnest. I was at my thinnest because I because I had an undiagnosed eating disorder. So my dieting, my yo yo dieting, my cycling since I was, you know, eight years old finally caught up to me. Didn't work anymore. So what what happened, I ended up with anorexia, and it was just like, okay. I just wanna eat because that's the only way that I can maintain this weight. And at that point, I wasn't losing any more weight. I was just literally not eating so that I wouldn't gain any more weight.
Tara [00:39:59]:
And, it was like a badge of honor. I mean, it was like, I am 40, and I am at my thinnest. And then it was like this kind of like, back to this idea of competition. It's this competition of who's the hottest mom, the hot mom kinda thing. And it's like, as our kids get older, it's like, well, I want my kids to I want I don't want my kids to be I don't need embarrassment to my kids. I wanna be cool to my kids. Well, how am I gonna be cool to my kids? I'm gonna be the hot mom. I'm gonna be the, like, the cool mom that every, like and then then Oh,
Jackie [00:40:30]:
yeah.
Tara [00:40:30]:
These thoughts of, like, you know, I don't know if if this is a term still used, but I remember my mom saying this often, and it stuck with me. It's like, I remember her grabbing her stomach and talking about menopause and saying that was, like, her matronly body now. And this idea of, like, an old older mom and a matronly body and it being such a bad thing, and she'd hold her stomach and she'd touch her stomach, and she'd feel it. And I'd watch her, and I, you know, I didn't realize that at the time what message that was sending to me that's like, oh, you can't let this happen, and, like, the shame that she felt. Because and she was always just a a nice, you know, figure. And all of a sudden, she had this, like, belly, and it was, like, the worst thing in the world. And I'm just a little girl thinking, And so what that does to us and now I think it's just gone to different levels that we are, you know, we're ten, fifteen years out, and we're still chasing the postpartum body or the pre baby body, I should say.
Rachel [00:41:30]:
Yeah. For sure.
Tara [00:41:31]:
Sure.
Heather Creekmore [00:41:32]:
Yeah. Because that's how you win. Yeah. Exactly. Yes. Presley, go ahead.
Presli [00:41:38]:
Oh, yeah. I just wanted to add on to what Tara said, like or, like, being the hot mom, or or you wanna look like you still got it, or you don't wanna look your age, and you don't wanna have that mommy tummy. Like, I don't know. After I had my c section, my stomach was never the same. It just it just wasn't. And I I didn't I didn't want it to look like I don't got it anymore. Like, I'm not just my body is never the same after that, and I just Yeah.
Heather Creekmore [00:42:06]:
Yeah. Yeah. How many of you had c sections? Me, two. Presley had two. Tara, you didn't?
Jackie [00:42:14]:
No. I
Heather Creekmore [00:42:15]:
didn't. Jackie, all clear. Yeah. I had four c sections. Oh my gosh. So yeah, I you know, and that there's a whole story in there in and of itself of disappointment, control like, control.
Tara [00:42:30]:
Like, I
Heather Creekmore [00:42:31]:
had my birth plan. I told them exactly what I wanted to do, and it was not supposed to end in a c section. And then I got pregnant with Katie, like, when Zach was just 16 old. And so they were like, there's no way you could be back. You have to have a c section, which actually saved her life because her cord was wrapped around her neck. And so now it's easy to be like, oh, I don't have a c section. Really? Oh, yeah. Wow.
Heather Creekmore [00:42:52]:
So I was just curious about that. Jackie, we're gonna jump in.
Jackie [00:42:58]:
Yeah. I've lost my thought because Because you're pregnant?
Heather Creekmore [00:43:03]:
I'm sorry.
Jackie [00:43:06]:
I didn't say No. I'm sorry. Excuse ever. Back. I got it back. I got it back. Tara, when you mentioned, like, wanting to be like the hot mom, I also thought there's another element to this, at least for me of, well, I won't I I don't wanna lose my husband's attraction to me either. Right? So we just came out of marriage month.
Jackie [00:43:23]:
And there was one quote, Heather, you said about how we're sort of we want them to objectify us. Like, it's like, if I could just get back to the pre pregnancy, you know, oh, this is this is the body you married. Right? Like, I need to I need to be back there. Otherwise, there's a, like, a shame almost I almost felt like I was letting my husband down. And before we had our third, I felt like I had to lose weight before I got pregnant, which actually made me gain a ton of weight because and that's a whole another story. But it was like I had to get to that starting point. Like, I had this starting point in my mind that was the safe place to get pregnant. And if I couldn't reach there, then I shouldn't get pregnant because then I'm basically giving up my body and any hope that it will ever go back.
Presli [00:44:09]:
Right? I
Jackie [00:44:09]:
have that. Was.
Presli [00:44:10]:
Yeah. I've had that too. Like, I can't get pregnant unless I'm this weight.
Jackie [00:44:14]:
And then, like
Presli [00:44:15]:
because then I'm gonna be over this weight once I gain the right amount. Yeah.
Heather Creekmore [00:44:20]:
Yeah. That language you just used, though, Jack, is pretty interesting. Giving up my body. Right? Like, in some ways, that is what we have to do when we get pregnant.
Jackie [00:44:29]:
Yes.
Heather Creekmore [00:44:29]:
Right? Yeah. And actually do just give up your body. Go ahead. Yeah.
Jackie [00:44:33]:
I I have a good friend who just we had this conversation. She's actually also pregnant right now. And she I wanna give her credit because this was beautiful. But she said, you know, we live in a culture that's like my body, my choice, and my body is everything. And Jesus said, here is my body broken for you. Right? And there is a sense like when you're pregnant, your body is not just yours, right? It's your baby's. Like it's it's their home. It's their first home.
Jackie [00:44:59]:
And and even after they're born, like you provide their nourishment, you know, it's like your body is not yours anymore. There is a dying to self that has to happen to give life. Right. And I think that image just stuck.
Presli [00:45:12]:
That's so good.
Jackie [00:45:13]:
It's a beautiful image of the gospel that we don't, we don't necessarily grasp or even think about because we're so concerned about our own shame and we're not ready to give up our bodies.
Heather Creekmore [00:45:24]:
Just getting pregnant is sanctification. Mhmm. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Go ahead, Tara. You're gonna jump in.
Tara [00:45:32]:
Oh, yeah. No. And, gosh, what you just said, Jackie, is so beautiful, and I'm so glad that you went there with that because I think that's so true. And I think back now to, you know, again, going back to what Rachel originally said and what what the beauty of the listeners now who get to hear this is, you get to you get to experience things that we missed out on because we were tight so tightly holding on to what culture told us we were supposed to do that we missed out on so much because we listen to the world's word more than we listen to God's word. So I'm so glad that you brought that up, Jackie. And I was just thinking when you were talking about your husband because we were kinda piggybacking off marriage month, and I just thought that was such a great great thing to bring up because I actually remember saying this, you know, recently even to my husband, you know, x many years after the baby and, you know, eating disorder and just the body's changing, it's aging, all the very many facets with which our body changes. Not just because, you know, we wanna put so much blame on ourselves. Like, my body has changed so much because I dieted and I had an eating disorder and all this stuff.
Tara [00:46:33]:
Sure. But I'm also older, and I've had two babies. And, like, yes, it's going to change. And I looked at my husband one day, and I just remember I finally had to have the conversation with him because I was holding it in for so long. The shame of of, like, guilt that I let him down, that I ruined like, I'm so sorry. And I remember I looked at him one night, and I was sobbing, and I said, and we have a wedding picture next to our bed. And I looked at him, and I said, I am so sorry that I don't look like that anymore, that I'm not that person for you anymore. And it was like, you know, I I'm so grateful that in that moment, he's not the most sensitive of men.
Tara [00:47:12]:
Like, he's a wonderful man, but he's, he's not like your typical, like, em empathetic romantic kinda guy. He's a little bit more of, like, the stoic, like, tell you like it is. But in that moment, he just looked at me. He goes, okay. Well, I guess I should apologize to you because I'm not that man in that picture anymore either. And I just was like
Presli [00:47:27]:
Oh, yeah.
Tara [00:47:28]:
Oh my god. Like, I don't need to see it that way because I don't look at him that way. I don't objectify him that way. I like, in no way, I look at the man in that picture and think, oh, he was a great guy, and I'm so glad I chose him. But, like, oh, lord. The man I have today with the wisdom and the growth that he's had is a heck of a lot better than that man was. And I think of that young girl, like, prebabies, you know, not a mom yet. Like, how like, motherhood is one of the greatest steps to curing the sin nature of selfishness.
Tara [00:47:58]:
Right? We never have to be more selfless. Like, as you were saying, Jackie, with our bodies, letting our bodies not be our own, that's dying to self. Like, it's such a beautiful because guess what? When that baby comes, it's a continuation of that, and it's a sanctification process. And so just remembering, like, oh my gosh. Yes. Like, my outer it goes reminds me back of what Paul says. Like, my outer being is wasting away. This temporary body is gonna change, and it's gonna maybe over time look a little less than compared to what the culture tells us.
Tara [00:48:26]:
But, oh god, the the the sanctification that's happening within us because of what we're doing here is it's worth it. It's so worth it.
Heather Creekmore [00:48:36]:
Yeah. Yeah. That's good. That's good. Well, thinking about postpartum, if you kinda transition to that. I don't know. Well, the thought keeps going to mind. You were talking about your husband's opinion of your body.
Heather Creekmore [00:48:46]:
So my son was probably 12 or 13 and was kinda having some I'm gonna call him body image issues of his own. You know, feeling like he didn't look the way he needed to look to have friends and all the things. And, I was trying to relate to him, and I was like, well, son, you know, mom has the same struggle too. Actually writes books about it. You know, mom mom thinks that she should be skinnier. And he looked at me just kinda startled. Okay. So he's not a teenager, preteen teenager.
Heather Creekmore [00:49:18]:
He's like, what? He's like your mom's size. I was like, yes. But it was like, it was like the most and yet most complimentary thing anyone had ever said to me all at the same time. Right. Because in some ways it was like, oh, that hurt mom size. Right. But then another way it's like, oh, but I am the mom. Like, that's my role here.
Heather Creekmore [00:49:43]:
I'm no longer like a teenage peer. I am the mom and my son sees me as mom size. Like, oh, maybe I need to accept myself as mom size too. But thinking about postpartum, right? There's there's a lot there. Right? We talked a little bit about like the pressure to bounce back. You know, for me, I was dieting to bounce back, but but actually more so, my kids had some sensitivities, food sensitivities, like nursing problems. And so, by my third, I had postpartum depression pretty severely. And I think it was related to what I was not eating because I was pretty much down to applesauce as the only food that didn't irritate him.
Heather Creekmore [00:50:36]:
You know, I cut out dairy. I had, you know, cut out garlic and onions and all the controversial vegetables. And I mean, like soy and, you know, you name it, like the whole list, gluten, of course, like I cut it all out. And so I was barely eating. And in some ways, right, like this is the disturbed eating disorder mind that I had. In some ways it was like, this is awesome. Right? Because of the way joys. Because I can only eat applesauce.
Heather Creekmore [00:51:03]:
I'm gonna be the skinniest mom of three you've ever seen. Right? But what it was doing to my mental health was horrible. And so finally, I went went to my counselor. My counselor was like, you need to see your doctor. And I went to the doctor, and the doctor was like, you need to see a counselor. You guys disagree? Like, I need something. And and really what it came down to was so one of the things this is ironic. One of the things that they that I I just had to research for myself because I did they neither one of them gave me the answers I needed.
Heather Creekmore [00:51:33]:
And something I was researching said eat more bananas. And bananas had been a fear food of mine. Right? Because they had so many carbohydrates and weight watchers only let you eat half and all the things. Right? So I started eating bananas like a wild woman and eating more stuff. And and eventually, I'm not saying this is the case for every woman with PPD. Right. I mean, and if meds are what you need, meds are what you need, but for me, just eating more and including those bananas and the potassium and all the other things like that helped me significantly. And that was, my first probably introduction into kind of being anti diet.
Heather Creekmore [00:52:10]:
I don't like that label so much, but but recognizing like, oh, wait, dieting might not be the best thing for me as a whole person. Yeah. Yeah. How about you guys? What was it like after after baby?
Tara [00:52:28]:
Yeah. I'm oh, sorry. Go ahead, Jackie. Go ahead.
Jackie [00:52:31]:
It reminds me again of the competition mindset because I very much felt like not just with bouncing back, but being a first time mom or a second time mom and, like, you know, when your child has some kind of issues, again, you feel like it's your fault. Like, oh, I have to cut this food group out or I should be, you know, exercising more, whatever the case may be. And we just we put so much burden on ourselves to do the right thing, and whatever happens with our baby feels like our fault again. You know, I had one son, who had very bad colic, and I think, and he ended up having reflux. And I still wonder sometimes, like, well, I was taking reflux medication my whole pregnancy, and then he needed that reflux medication. Like, does that mean it was my fault? Like, did I do this to him? And I think, you know, we just we get so caught up in that of of doing everything right or breastfeeding versus formula feeding and or how long are you gonna breastfeed? You know, I had to give up breastfeeding with my first after eight months because I got pregnant again. So, you know, that eight months, I didn't get to that sweet spot because we were ready for another one, and then it was like I couldn't breastfeed. It was just too much.
Jackie [00:53:38]:
So there's just a lot of, like, disappointment of what I thought it was supposed to look like versus what actually happened
Presli [00:53:46]:
for me.
Jackie [00:53:47]:
And I've I've found that that's been consistent for that was consistent for both of my postpartum journeys. Like, this is not really what I thought it was gonna be. Even down to, like, I've just just a silly thing of maybe four months postpartum with my first. I'm like, this is kinda boring. Like, I don't really wanna take care of him. And I just I felt so much shame for feeling that way because it was like, I'm supposed to cherish every moment with this beautiful little newborn. I was just, you know, there's there are these like real thoughts happening. And then it's like, you try to
Heather Creekmore [00:54:19]:
fit them into the puzzle
Jackie [00:54:21]:
piece of like, oh, this is what it's supposed to be like postpartum. And it just never lined up for me.
Heather Creekmore [00:54:27]:
Yeah. I think acknowledging that disappointment, like, that's the word. Right? Because you do feel shame when you feel that disappointment. I was the same way. I was like, this is what I've been doing all my life, and this is hard. This is so much Pera, you were gonna jump in, then Presley, and then Rachel.
Tara [00:54:44]:
Oh, yeah. No. That that was so good, Jackie. And I just I I was thinking too just about, you know, after with, like, the, you know, kinda continuing with the same things that we face with the pregnancy. You face the exact same things with the postpartum. It's the control. It's the, again, who are we listening to, and where are all these guidelines coming in? Let's be honest. It's it's not unlike the diet culture that we hear where the nutrition, the food rules, what is good one decade is now different another decade, even with pregnancy and postpartum.
Tara [00:55:15]:
What is good and with babies, like, there's so much we don't know. Do this for your baby. You can read two books that tell you to do the total opposite things. And, like, each one will tell you
Heather Creekmore [00:55:26]:
Yes.
Tara [00:55:27]:
This is 100% the way to do it.
Heather Creekmore [00:55:29]:
We slept I slept on my stomach. Yeah. Right? Right. And then, like, you know, and then I learned, like, you should never put the baby down the stomach. And my mom's like, why don't you put that baby down the stomach? Because that will kill him. Yeah. We won't do that. Yeah.
Heather Creekmore [00:55:42]:
Go ahead.
Tara [00:55:43]:
So, yeah, it's just it's one of those things where I think we have to remember that aspect as well as we're on this, you know, body image journey. A lot of us are starting to really be awakened to the truth of the lies that we've believed, and I think we have to start incorporating that too within our pregnancies and within our postpartum, and within our raising of our children is, how many lies are we still believing from culture over the word? And the truth is, like, God created this. God made us and our bodies to give life, and we are not in control of that. He is. And it doesn't mean that it doesn't have hardships and difficult things and all this stuff. But, like, I mean, I remember when my son was diagnosed with cancer at 18, and I had done everything perfectly or so I thought. And I remember truly struggling for, like, a year thinking that I did something wrong. Like, I had to have messed up somehow.
Tara [00:56:35]:
And they told me, like, there's no genetic links. It's it's just a a fluke. Like, they they don't know why. And it was such it's like, no. I had to have done something wrong. If I can just figure it out, I can prevent it. And that's because it was fear. Right? It's all the fears that we bring to it.
Tara [00:56:50]:
And, you know, and I just wanted to to piggyback on what you said, Heather, because it was really funny about the mom body, and I just love that. And for me, even where I am at right now with having a 13 year old son, it's very different. Like, so I have a son and a daughter, and how they perceive me is very different. Right? And having a 13 year old son with a mom, like, he's starting, like, independence. Okay, mom. Like, you know, my son doesn't want to see me as a hot mom. That's not what he wants. That's not what makes me valuable or amazing to him at all.
Tara [00:57:19]:
And when I gained weight through this journey of, healing my body and my body got much larger, My son didn't bark at it. He didn't notice it. It didn't matter to him in any way, shape, or form. And in fact, I found that he became much more comfortable knowing that when we were gonna go out to a pool somewhere and stuff that I was gonna be wearing, like, maybe my bathe my bathing suit shorts and, like, a bathing suit t shirt, and I wasn't gonna be walking around in a bikini. Because as a 13 year old boy, seeing moms walking around in bikini, it's like, that's uncomfortable for him. So, anyways, I just wanted to say I love the mom body because that that helps me where I'm at right now too.
Presli [00:58:00]:
Oh, yeah. I was just wanting to comment on what Jackie said about she was talking about breastfeeding, and it reminded me of when I had my last son three years ago that, how important it was that I breastfeed. Like, I needed to be like I mean, it was equivalent to to food as organic. You know? I needed to feed him organic. And so I was gonna do that, but he had something wrong with his his lip. They said he had a lip tie or something. So he couldn't latch. So I but I literally wouldn't give up.
Presli [00:58:33]:
I I kept trying to the point of, you know, I'm bloody. I'm getting infections. I'm getting persistent mastitis. I'm in so much pain. I'm in the back and forth from the hospital Oh. With those lumps. And, eventually, one of those lumps developed into, I think it was I can't remember the word, but it it it went septic. It turned into, like, a serious infection.
Presli [00:58:56]:
I had to go to the ER. My doctor sent me straight up to the ER. It was like a a bump as hard as a rock, and they sent me to the doctor, and they surgically removed it. And I was left with a gaping wound, and I had to go home, and my husband had to pack that breast wound. So, like, that was super exposing, but, yeah, like, I
Rachel [00:59:18]:
he had to pack that wound.
Presli [00:59:20]:
And just because I wouldn't give up the breastfeeding, like, I wanted the the calories burned from the breastfeeding. I wanted him to eat organic. I wanted it to be how I wanted to be. I didn't wanna go to formula, and and, honestly, neither did my husband because he's from South Africa. And here, they're, like, really serious about breastfeeding. Like, if you love your child, you breastfeed. So he didn't want me to give up either. He was even getting up late into the night washing my pump for me, and I still got these infections.
Presli [00:59:45]:
And eventually, after I had the surgery and almost died in the hospital, he was like, if we ever have more children, you're never breastfeeding.
Tara [00:59:54]:
Oh, wow.
Presli [00:59:56]:
Yeah. Yeah. And with my nine year old, I never breastfeed. I never had the opportunity because he was taken to the NICU immediately because he was born with a cleft lip, which we didn't know about until he was born. So I didn't have the opportunity. So I really wanted to breastfeed this time, and, yeah, it went terribly wrong.
Heather Creekmore [01:00:12]:
Wow. Thanks for sharing that process. That sounds really hard. Eggs. I mean, that was nice. And you were talking about those infections, and I was like, oh, I remember getting a couple of those. I'm like, immediate. My breasts hurt really bad just hearing that word.
Presli [01:00:25]:
Yeah. My infection got infected.
Jackie [01:00:27]:
Like, it was painful.
Heather Creekmore [01:00:29]:
I Rachel, jump in. Unless you're but you had
Rachel [01:00:33]:
talked about ask you had asked, what it was like postpartum. And I remember, okay. Well, here I am now with this newborn baby, and mine also had colic. And I remember crying, like, if this is what babies are,
Jackie [01:00:44]:
I don't know what I
Rachel [01:00:45]:
was you know, just, like, crying crying. I also struggle with a lot of postpartum, sadness and and but, anyway, back to I had all this time now. Like, I was rocking her, and here I was. And she didn't nurse for long either. It was one it was not as bad as your situation, Prez, but it was it wasn't I was forcing it also because it's just what you do. It's what you do. I was gonna win. Remember? But here I am, all hours of the night, alone with my phone, and all this time to scroll.
Rachel [01:01:16]:
And I'm like, okay. This is this is a good time for me to find the right diet, for me to find the right workout plan. I can't tell you how many countless befores and after photos I looked at people, fit spoke, you know, just like So instead of, listening to the voice of God, which is, you know, would be so different from all that. I thought, quote unquote, I was doing the right thing. This is a good time for me to, like, kind of beat myself back into submission, get a plan. Because if I have a plan, I can stick to it. So every time I was nursing, it was like I was creating this I was reinforcing this toxic soundtrack in my mind of, okay, this is what I'm gonna do. This is the right thing.
Rachel [01:01:53]:
This is what will get me to safety. This is what will so if I could do it again if I could do it again, I would not be scrolling that. I would not be looking up everything. Are you kidding me? I didn't even know things existed to worry about till I googled something. And I would I would use that time differently because that was a time I really allowed the voice of the world to deceive me, and I fell prey to that. And then talk about getting me on the track to my most disordered time of life. It was in those dark alone moments after she was born, all three of them, that I started to, like, learn this new language and learn this new way that was not God's wisdom. So
Heather Creekmore [01:02:35]:
Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. That was really good, Rachel. And what I hear and what you said and what Presley used these exact words because I wrote them down. But it's like and this is probably where we're gonna have to tie it up today. But wrestling with the, like, I want it to be how I want it to be. Right? And so you have this whole struggle through pregnancy. I want it to be how I want it to be.
Heather Creekmore [01:03:03]:
I want to be the woman that no one knows is pregnant from the back. Right? That's winning. Or I want to be the woman who gains less than everyone else did or the woman who just got a doctor that congratulates her for being, like, the healthiest pregnant woman ever. Right? Like, all of these, like, silly little things. Right? And then, like, maybe it's like me. I want it to be how I want it to be with your birth story. Right? When you're comparing birth stories, it's like, oh, you didn't you went natural. You know? And I'm like, I'm gonna go natural.
Heather Creekmore [01:03:29]:
And then the doctor's like, no way, honey. You're having a c section. That baby's not going through. And then, you know, it's like so you've got this, like, again, like, oh, God. You broke down. I wanted to be how I wanted it to be. And then breastfeeding. I want it to be how I want it to be.
Heather Creekmore [01:03:43]:
I wanna breastfeed. It's gonna be easy. It's gonna be this wonderful experience. And then I'm gonna bounce right back because I want it to be how I want it to be. Right? And it's like, isn't that the struggle of our life? Right? I've got these expectations and these disappointments, and I want it to be how I want it to be. And like, Rachel, as you were talking, I mean, fortunately, when I had most of mine, I didn't have the access on my phone. Too old. I think I probably had it by, like, the last two.
Heather Creekmore [01:04:13]:
I probably had it by then, but at that point I had two toddlers. And so I did not have that many eyes to look at the phone and the two toddlers and the two babies. But how we miss out on the presence. Right. Because we're like super excited to get to that place with our body, where we want it to be, like where it will be, how we want it to be. Right. And that's kind of what you were doing. Right.
Heather Creekmore [01:04:37]:
Like, I can't wait because, oh, then I'm gonna feel this joy. The joy didn't come with the baby, but the joy is definitely gonna come postpartum when I get that hot body. And when people tell me you're really good for a mom of four, you're really good for a mom
Tara [01:04:51]:
of two.
Heather Creekmore [01:04:51]:
Right? Like, that's the badge of honor. Like, oh, yeah. I do. Okay. Great. Like, I've arrived. I've won to use Jackie's language, right, and Rachel's language. So, yeah, I I would just say, like, as as we kinda tie up this conversation, not neatly by any stretch of the imagination, but like, what if part of the equation with body image and pregnancy and body image postpartum is really considering surrender.
Tara [01:05:24]:
Right?
Rachel [01:05:25]:
Yeah. Absolutely.
Jackie [01:05:26]:
Yeah. That's it.
Heather Creekmore [01:05:27]:
So so quick quick thoughts because we gotta tie this up. We've gone long, but any quick thoughts on that as we kinda conclude our conversation today? What does it mean to surrender?
Rachel [01:05:38]:
One thing I was gonna say too is, like, if instead of that now, if if I went back, surrendering would look like listening to your podcast. Like, if so if I'm having that time, stick an AirPod in and learn what it means to have God's perception instead of mine. So surrendering everything that I've known which are very strong neural pathways they are developed and that is all I have known. But surrendering, trusting that, oh my gosh I'm kind of scared because I really don't know what this looks like, but Jesus I trust you and I know that you're calling me into more. So So I'm gonna I wanna listen to things and look at things that are gonna put your voice back in my head, in my heart instead of what the world says because it's everywhere and it's so loud. But one practical thing I would do is listen to your podcast. I mean, and just learn God's view of my body. Yeah.
Rachel [01:06:23]:
And maybe I would have enjoyed those moments so much more. I I I regret the self focused pride obsession I had during those times.
Heather Creekmore [01:06:32]:
Well, I'm even thinking, like, join the forty day journey. Because I think I would have been, like, well, I don't wanna join that because I don't have a body image issue now. Like, I need to make sure like, because the body image issue maybe will go away after I have the baby. And so it's not a season where I can work on that or whatever. But it's, like, it's the perfect season for that.
Rachel [01:06:51]:
Oh, actually, yeah. You have all this time to rock a baby and read a book. So where were you during those times for me, Heather? No. I'm just kidding.
Tara [01:06:58]:
I was thinking the same thing with the surrender piece, Heather, and I was just thinking, like, the fortieth the the forty day journey too with that because I look back and I I really I I learned surrender in a very harsh way. And at the time, it felt horrible. And now I realized, like, god, you are so good in your mercy and your love that, doing everything perfectly and then finding, you know, the first five years of my son's life, we lived in a hospital. And, like, the fact is is, like, he really showed me there was so much pride and arrogance because I really thought that I could do a better job at growing the life inside me. And I could do a better job, and I had a better idea and plan for how it should all look than he could ever could. And just because I don't understand his plan doesn't mean that it's not there and it's good. And the fact that I can't understand it actually might be a blessing. Because if I could understand it, how big of a god is he really? If my Yes.
Tara [01:07:56]:
If my minimal brain can understand it, he's not as big as but he's bigger. And so I think the forty day journey, the reason I say that's so good is, like, I if I could take I always think of this. If I could take the tools that I have now and the surrender and then what I've learned and kinda go back in time, it's like, oh, lord. But it's like, okay. It happens for each of us in the in the in the perfect timing that God has. But for those out there now, like, to start on the forty day journey, oh, and learn what surrender is really like.
Rachel [01:08:23]:
Yes. I love it.
Heather Creekmore [01:08:25]:
It'll be super fun it'll be super fun to have a whole forty day journey filled with pregnant and postpartum women. Like, we'll we'll put you in a group with other people like you, so calm. That'll be fun. Any last thoughts, Jackie? You're present.
Jackie [01:08:38]:
Yeah. I I I was just gonna say too. Yeah. The surrender is letting go of what you think things are supposed to look like, and that's true of my whole body image story and especially in pregnancy, but just this idea that we need to create an image for ourselves. You know, it's it's the idolatry piece. Right? Like, I think my whole like I said, pregnancy is what brought me into recovery, and I knew I knew something wasn't right. I knew I needed help, and I think it's just been this journey of, like, okay. This doesn't look like what I wanted.
Jackie [01:09:13]:
I don't look like what I want to. But like Tara said, God is not interested in what my postpartum body looks like. God is interested in my sanctification and growing closer to him and chasing the right things, is part of that surrender of of, like, okay. I need to let go of these idols, and I need to chase the Lord and be after his heart.
Heather Creekmore [01:09:37]:
Yeah. Can you imagine Mary like she was a teenager? But can you imagine Mary, like, in the like, can you imagine scripture reading, like, you know, and as soon as Jesus was born, Mary got right back. Right. Mary refused to ride on the donkey because she needed to burn off the Oh. Yes. So silly to, like, picture these issues we have now that are super relevant and I'm not dismissing them at all because they're real, But they're super in our face. It's so silly to think about people in bible time. It's like thinking in this disordered way that we think now.
Heather Creekmore [01:10:13]:
But
Tara [01:10:13]:
Absolutely.
Heather Creekmore [01:10:15]:
Any final thoughts, Presley?
Presli [01:10:19]:
Yeah. So I think just the the freedom not to be worrying about my body is just the best gift ever. So if I could go back, I would love to have found this podcast sooner, been involved with the forty day journey sooner just because, like yeah. Just the freedom. It it is so much better than skinny feels.
Heather Creekmore [01:10:41]:
Love it.
Presli [01:10:42]:
And yet yeah.
Tara [01:10:43]:
Love that. Love that.
Heather Creekmore [01:10:45]:
Yeah. Freedom is better than skinny feels. Yes. Amen. We know we know that. We know that. You guys, thanks so much for this conversation today. I I pray that for all those listening, this was helpful and encouraging and, and hopefully hope filled as well.
Heather Creekmore [01:11:06]:
Right? Because that's that's what we want. We want you to have hope that you actually can be free from this, that if you are obsessing over your body all of the time, and if pregnancy made that worse or better, or if postpartum made that worse or better, just know, like, you don't have to stay there. You can find freedom. So thank you for watching or listening today. I hope something today has helped you stop comparing and start living. Bye bye.
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