How to Have Agency With Food Choices Featuring Amy Carlson Part 1/2 [Podcast Transcript]

Title: How to Have Agency With Food Choices Featuring Amy Carlson Part 1/2

Podcast Date: October 29, 2024

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Description

Host Heather Creekmore interviews dietitian and eating disorder specialist, Amy Carlson, MS, RD, about the complex relationships individuals have with food, their own health, and agency. Heather and Amy delve into the assumptions that connect food, health, and lab results, and Amy stresses that anomalies in lab results can often be influenced by factors beyond one's control, such as family history.

Heather shares her personal anxieties about not following a food plan and the fear it instills when approaching medical check-ups. Amy shares insights into diet culture's pressures and the significance of developing self-awareness over outsourcing one's health to external authorities. The episode explores how social media contributes to self-critique and how societal norms can affect personal choices.

Heather and Amy also discuss when we first surrendered our agency around food and our health and how, for many of us, we were taught the rules of diet culture from a young age. Amy explores how damaging and inaccurate some of these rules and premises can be, especially when applied to our children.

Ready to get on the road to body image and food freedom? Learn more about the 40-Day Journey at: www.improvebodyimage.com

Transcript

Disclaimer: This transcript is AI-generated and has not been edited for accuracy or clarity.

Heather Creekmore [00:00:04]:

Hey, friend. Heather Creekmore here. Does the thought of not being on a food plan, wellness plan, diet plan make you feel afraid? Because it seems like you are ruining or hurting your health, unless you're following a plan? Oh, if so, friend, I get it. I get it so much. This is something I've been wrestling a lot personally, and that's why I invited my friend, Amy Carlson. She has been an eating disorder specialist. She's a dietitian, got a master's in all kinds of other degrees around food and nutrition science. I invited her on today so we could talk about the reality of why do we feel like we have to have a plan in order to be healthy, and how should we be relating to food? Oh, friend, this is so nuanced.

Heather Creekmore [00:01:00]:

If thinking about not having a plan gives you a lot of anxiety, feel free to go get some more help. Amy, as you'll hear, didn't wanna answer some of my questions in black and white terms because of our dear precious friends who have had eating disorders or maybe in an eating disorder or disordered eating right now. So there is help for you if you need it. But, friend, I think every one of us will be encouraged by this conversation and Amy's really helpful expert opinion on food and plans and how maybe we've been trained all wrong from the very beginning as we think about, really, where we learned to track calories and where we learned what's healthy and not healthy. Oh, Fred, it's such a mixed bag. It's gonna help you. And if you're a mom or grandma, it's gonna help you relate to your kids better around food as well. Hey.

Heather Creekmore [00:01:52]:

Share this episode with a friend or maybe a teacher or maybe a gym class teacher or a health teacher that you know who maybe needs a little bit of a fresh perspective. And, hey, if you aren't free with food because of your body image issues, I want you to join us on the 40 day journey. It's coming January 7th. Go to improve body image dot com and sign up or learn more. Welcome to Compared to Who, the podcast to help you make peace with your body so you can favor God's rest and feel his love. If you're tired of fighting body image the world's way, Compare to Who is the show for you. You've likely heard lots of talk about loving your body, but my goal is different. Striving to fall in love with stretch marks and cellulite is a little silly to me.

Heather Creekmore [00:02:43]:

Instead, I want to encourage you and remind you with the truth of scripture that you are seen, you are known, and you are loved no matter what your size or shape. Here, the pressure is off. If you're looking for real talk, biblical encouragement, and regular reminders that God loves you and you're not alone, you've come to the right place. I hope you enjoy today's show, and, hey, tell a friend about it. Amy Carlson, welcome to the compare to you show again.

Amy Carlson [00:03:15]:

Thank you for having me, Heather, again.

Heather Creekmore [00:03:19]:

Sorry. I couldn't get you a live audience this time. So it'll just be you and me, Chad. Fun. We need to do that again. Fun.

Amy Carlson [00:03:24]:

I know that.

Heather Creekmore [00:03:25]:

That again.

Amy Carlson [00:03:26]:

I was so

Heather Creekmore [00:03:26]:

excited. I kinda forgot about that too. But, hey, I wanted I wanted to talk to you because you are a expert on food things. I like to think so. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? You only have, like, what, 30 years That's a long time. Of, experience.

Heather Creekmore [00:03:47]:

I actually was thinking, like, this is a little bit of an aside. But really, like, dietitians and people who've done the postgraduate work that you've done, like, you have more expertise in training around food than someone who went the traditional route as a medical doctor or even a nurse. Correct? I mean

Amy Carlson [00:04:07]:

Yeah. Yeah. A lot more. Yeah. For sure.

Heather Creekmore [00:04:10]:

So it's it's it is interesting to me that when we think about the question we're gonna kinda start by tackling today is, like, I think the heart behind most of the people I talk to is I just wanna get it right with food. Like, I'm worried I'm not getting it right with food. How can I get it right with food? Don't I have to be on a plan to get it right with food? And so I just wanna kinda from the get go establish, like, your credibility and authority in this. Mhmm. Because I do feel like and this is I mean, I've got a whole family full of doctors. So this is no no disregard or or shade thrown at doctors in any way. But I feel like people are even getting bad nutrition advice from their doctors. And and so I just from the get go, I just wanna establish, like, you've studied and practiced this for a long time.

Amy Carlson [00:05:00]:

I have studied, yes, and practiced it. And I kinda would like a whole family full of doctors. I don't have a whole family. I can you know what? I have a family full of teachers, and they all think I'm the doctor. Okay. They all think uh-huh.

Heather Creekmore [00:05:12]:

That's awesome. Yeah. It was really helpful if you needed, you know, like, a sports physical filled out. Yeah. Or if you knew like, just needed something random and you didn't wanna go to the doctor. That's how I

Amy Carlson [00:05:24]:

grew up. I love that.

Heather Creekmore [00:05:27]:

But here here's where I wanna start today because I think it will start here, then we'll kinda just go a variety of directions, I think, off of this. But Amy, I'm driving to get my blood work done before my annual physical. And I found myself feeling afraid. Not because I have symptoms, not necessarily because I'm like, I feel bad and the blood work's gonna show something awful. Like, not not that. Mhmm. But because I haven't been on a quote, unquote food plan for several years now. And it was like all of the messaging of culture, diet culture, right, Instagram.

Heather Creekmore [00:06:21]:

It was like, oh, is there gonna be any way that I can be healthy according to my blood work given that I haven't been on a plan? And And then I'm having this, like, debate with myself. Right? Like Yeah. But, like, it's not like, you know, I feel like I know what I'm doing around food. You know, like, I'm not I'm not subsisting on, like, Oreos. Like, that's not the only food I like, I'm like, I feel like I'm back in balance and making good choices. But the fear is and I think this is the fear for a lot of women, especially in our age

Amy Carlson [00:06:57]:

group. Mhmm.

Heather Creekmore [00:06:58]:

Right? Is that if we get it wrong with food, then when we get the blood work, when we see the doctor, then we are gonna have the prediabetes or full blown diabetes. We're gonna have, you know, the blood pressures. We're gonna have all these check, check, check. And the doctor's response is gonna be, you didn't do it right with food. You should do better with food. You know? Did you forget to cut out gluten and dairy and lectins? And, you know, I don't know. I can't I was trying to think of other, like, little random things, like, you know, but did you forget to cut out all those things? You know, like, are you are you crazy? Are you not following this plan or this plan or this plan? You know? And and so I'd love to just have a conversation or, like, why am I so afraid? Right. Why is it scary? Or maybe even like an anathema for some to think about, like, is it possible to be healthy without a plan? Like, I mean, is that just foolish and irresponsible? Because, like, I have a plan for my money.

Heather Creekmore [00:07:58]:

Shouldn't I have a plan for my food or, you know, like like, so help help me.

Amy Carlson [00:08:04]:

Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:08:04]:

Help us Like, why this anxiety and and should we have that kind of anxiety around food?

Amy Carlson [00:08:12]:

Mhmm. I have a lot of thoughts as you can imagine. First, my own blood pressure kinda went up. I was like, well, I'm I'm feeling anxious for you. A lot of feelings you had. Right? And then I wanna put you in my great hammock that I was gonna put everybody in and just, like, I wanna calm everybody down. That's a lot of feelings. And it's not strange that you have those feelings.

Amy Carlson [00:08:36]:

I I wanna tease apart a few things. I should have been taking notes, but I was enamored with your story.

Heather Creekmore [00:08:40]:

So I should have been I should have been

Amy Carlson [00:08:42]:

taking notes so you can remind me. Because I wanna tease apart a few things. One, the base assumption is that, first of all, that food has this incredible power. And I just had I have not been to the National, Dietitian Food Nutrition Conference and Expo in in a very long time, but there's 6,000 dietitians in one spot. And I'm not a very traditional dietitian as you know from our lengthy history together. But I was astounded at the brilliance in so many of these speakers. I, I was like, wow, dietitians are collectively very smart. They're very smart and they fill a really kind of niche kind of space in the allied health.

Amy Carlson [00:09:36]:

It's like they're across rate between it's like they carry that medical piece. They know how to read labs and order some tests. And and again, a dietitian can be somebody who works in NICU. You know, they're working with preemie babies, and it could be me working with eating disorders. It could be somebody working with, you know, renal diagnosis or that. And so I want you to see that connection there. All of those things have to do with food and health. Right? So if a baby comes out as a preemie, a dietician calculates, right, what that little tube feed is and how do we nourish that baby to to get their health back.

Amy Carlson [00:10:14]:

Right? If I have renal disease, if I've been diagnosed with renal disease, kidney disease, and I meet with a dietician, the dietician is gonna say, hey, given your disease state, here's a way that we address the nutrition piece to help alleviate some things for your kidneys. If you have diabetes, hey, if it's type 2, it's one thing. And if it's type 1, hey, you don't have any insulin. So we have to understand the role of nutrition and diabetes. And so that's one of the reasons that it makes a lot of sense that you have the feelings you're having. If I'm going to get labs done that are just standard labs. And by the way, our labs change right throughout our lifespan and during different seasons for sure. But if I do and I'm feeling anxious, if I have labs that are, you know, whatever, unsettling in one way or another.

Amy Carlson [00:11:10]:

It would make sense because of what I just said that we would connect. Okay. So instead of saying now what what could I do here, right, that would promote health in this way? We're saying, I must have done something wrong. Mhmm. Not only that, we are being, I mean, blasted, blasted, blasted, blasted with information 247. And I know I've told you before, I'm not on social media. I'm not on any of that because, well, my brain could not handle that. But our kids are, and most of us as adults are getting inundated with I mean, when I look at any of my family members' social media, I'm I'm like, I'm I'm need an eye lift.

Amy Carlson [00:11:50]:

I need a a boob lift. I need a I need a this supplement, and I'm I'm enamored. I'm like, maybe I do. I I don't know. What am I supposed to be making kale soup now? For sure, there's something with a butternut squash. Now we're in butternut squash territory because it's false. So I know I'm just gonna be making something with butternut squash. Right? It's like, woah.

Amy Carlson [00:12:11]:

It's overwhelming. So the fact that you had anxiety for 1 is I don't think that's strange at all. I think the underlying assumption is that if my labs are off, I've done something wrong. If my labs are off, I've done something wrong. Yeah. And I I just want that to be the the first thing we settle. I can be living life just eating normally, you know, listening to my hunger and fullness, be in just kind of my natural weight. I can, move all those things, and I can hit 50 and my labs have show something.

Amy Carlson [00:12:50]:

It's I mean, I have have always had elevated lipids. I have a family history of that. You walk around with me. You're like, hey. She's not really eating that would you would suggest elevated lipids. The doctor's always like, everything else looks great. You're fine. Whatever.

Amy Carlson [00:13:05]:

But if you just looked at my lipids, you would be like, hey. What? Amy Carlson, what are you doing over there? Right? Because the assumption would be I'm doing something wrong. Yeah. So it makes sense. I want to just underline that with, is it possible that I'm not doing anything wrong and I still could have, right, a shift in my labs? Mhmm. Number 2, there are incredible doctors. There are wonderful, wonderful doctors. They get very, very, very little information.

Amy Carlson [00:13:38]:

In fact, the opening keynote speaker at our 4 day dietitian conference was a doctor Okay. Who's brilliant, amazing. Really, the whole thing was on food insecurity and, I mean, the the the big theme of it. But he said and another doctor who gave him a message said, hey. You need to know we get almost none. Almost very, very little. Mhmm. And we're winging it.

Amy Carlson [00:14:03]:

We're winging it. Right? So but most of the people in our lives, especially older, right, like us and older, would go to a doctor and assume whatever they say is right. Mhmm. And let me just tell you, doctors generally give nutrition advice as the first line of defense for something that they see. Mhmm. Right? Like, okay. You need to cut this out or you need to do this. They have if I if I were to say, hey.

Amy Carlson [00:14:30]:

Can you actually tell me why? Like, if they were to tell me that and I would say, can you give me some research that just suggests that. Right? Or some recent literature or you know what affects our health? One of the biggest promoters of health is community. And a doctor's not saying, hey, tell me about who you're living life with.

Heather Creekmore [00:14:53]:

Right. To your friends.

Amy Carlson [00:14:54]:

Do you have friends?

Heather Creekmore [00:14:56]:

Right. Do

Amy Carlson [00:14:56]:

what are you doing for, like, hey. What when you say you're going walking, is that with somebody? Who knows your life? Right. That's not a question. I mean, maybe in in some really great physician's office that's happening, but that's a bigger predictor of health than food even. Yeah. That's a big deal. That that that's a big deal. So if we start with a baseline assumption maybe maybe I've gotten, you know, maybe I I I there's something I can look at and say, hey.

Amy Carlson [00:15:25]:

I've gotten into you know, you've heard me talk about getting in my habit of right drinking, you know, me big old coffees every day that maybe it's like, okay. Maybe I should Is that you know, do I need that? What am I what kind of what do I have instead of there? What's happening there? I might ask myself. But in general, what if my assumption was I am curious about how my health is? Not only that, labs are one piece of the puzzle. So I'm curious, if you got your results back. You don't have to tell us, but yet. You haven't yet?

Heather Creekmore [00:15:57]:

Oh, I'm just I'm hoping I would before this call, but I haven't yet. Excited. They'll probably come as soon as I hang up.

Amy Carlson [00:16:03]:

They will come with some all labs within normal limits, labs within normal limits, lab within normal limits. Right? And here's the other thing. Labs within normal limits, if you're having symptoms, a lot of times that doesn't mean anything too. Right? Like, hey. These labs might be indicative of your anemic even though it doesn't say you are. Or so we're the expert on our body. Right. We're the expert on our body.

Amy Carlson [00:16:28]:

And you and I have had this conversation before, and I would love to just kinda linger there, is that we lose faith and trust in our body very early on. So we're outsourcing it. We're outsourcing it. You're driving to the doctor, outsourcing. Like, they're the authority. They get to say whether I'm doing I'm taking care of my health or not. Right. Isn't that strange? Yeah.

Amy Carlson [00:16:57]:

How did I outsource, like, rather than me saying I I just said to a client this morning earlier this morning, she's battling, you know, with feelings of relapse, and this person said I looked okay. And and I don't understand. And I looked at her and said, baby, are you okay? Are are you okay? And she said, no. I am not. Yeah. She's the authority. She got to tell me I'm not doing okay. Well, that's that oh, there's some trust being built there.

Amy Carlson [00:17:27]:

Right. I can say I'm not doing okay. So if you're driving, let's put you back in the car. Mhmm. You're driving to the doctor. Are you doing okay? Right? When you ask yourself that? Yeah. Does that change kind of the narrative at all?

Heather Creekmore [00:17:44]:

Yeah. But, I mean, as I think about my story, and I think that, like, we just did a couple episodes on this, within the last month. I think I gave my agency away or Yeah. Or never had agency if you will. Yeah. It just in my my family. Right? Like, I like, mom told me whether or not I was eating okay and doing okay. Right? And so and then I think, you know, now, okay.

Heather Creekmore [00:18:09]:

I've worked through mom issues and, you know, goodness gracious, 50. So hopefully, I'm not still looking to mom to see although I I do I mean, I I shouldn't even say that in the tone I said that in because I do talk to many women that I think are still at my age, at our age. Right? Still saying, like, mom, am I okay? Absolutely. But subconsciously, like, you know, if mom says I look good, then I look good. You know, mom says I'm doing good. I'm doing good. That kind of thing. Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:18:35]:

But but I think maybe the agency transferred them to other authority figures. Right? So then it's or or even I mean, to some degree, this isn't really the case for me, but I talked to him and like, if my husband thinks I'm doing okay. Right? You know? And we know that husbands are purchases in diet much in diet culture as as women are. Right? So it's like, that's a dangerous one. Right? Because he's like, oh, I don't are you supposed to eat that? And and then and then in some cases, and I'm always like, kinda joking with women about this. In some cases, we've trained our husbands in the rules of diet culture. Yeah. And then if you try to go to intuitive eating, they're like, wait, am I or am I keeping you accountable to not eat that? Are you allowed to eat that? Like, are you like, I don't know what's going on here.

Amy Carlson [00:19:21]:

Yes. Honestly, I feel like we should do a full on skit on that because I'm picturing the husband pulling out the food scale and being like, oh, okay. We're not doing that anymore. Okay. Wait. Am I okay. No. Okay.

Amy Carlson [00:19:34]:

So do you get the Oreos? Don't get the Oreo. Okay. Right?

Heather Creekmore [00:19:37]:

Great. Great. Well, yeah. And it's like I mean, these poor guys. Right? Like, I mean, if they've been together for a long time, like, you know, in the nineties, well, we don't eat fat. Right? In the 2000 like like, oh, what what food group are we eating? Yeah. For sure. Oh, we're eating all of them? For sure.

Heather Creekmore [00:19:52]:

That's weird. Like, are sure they're not something we should be cutting out?

Amy Carlson [00:19:55]:

So think about that. I love that you use that word agency. I know we've used it before. I love it so much because I had shared this story with you, earlier the this week or last week, just that that, my dear friend, dear dear friend, who, is a PE teacher for elementary school, we were at a meeting together. Should we somebody was asking her about pickleball, which is cool. They teach pickleball in elementary school. Now I think that's so fun. I'm like, oh, now that that's better than, like, the sliding, you know, things that we used to run our fingers over on.

Heather Creekmore [00:20:26]:

Dodgeball? Oh. Oh, I hate that. Football. I've got PTSD from dodgeball.

Amy Carlson [00:20:32]:

I mean, play pickleball. Right? I

Heather Creekmore [00:20:34]:

see it.

Amy Carlson [00:20:35]:

So she was joking, limiting that they were in their nutrition, unit and how boring that was. And, of course, people were laughing at the table looking at me, and she said they were teaching them the nutrition label, how to read a nutrition label. Now this is young. This is a this is elementary school, and I, of course, had a moment. And this is somebody I love and respect. I still do. She's amazing. She's a dear friend.

Amy Carlson [00:20:56]:

But I said, hey. I'm curious. Like, what what would be the purpose of teaching an elementary school kid? You know? And she said, well, we're, you know, introducing nutrition. And I thought, okay. So I said, hey, do you all talk about intuitive eating? And she said, I don't know what that is. So we got separated. We had to go do basketball meeting, and, she she followed up. I was so grateful.

Amy Carlson [00:21:22]:

She followed up with a text. Hey. Give me some ideas. These are some things that we currently do. We teach kids. We have a game. We teach them healthy, unhealthy. Of course, I start armpits sweating.

Amy Carlson [00:21:33]:

Right? I was like, what is happening? I'm like, okay. Okay. And then she said, we teach him a serving size and all that. So I'm picturing a prepubescent tiny 4th grade girl with a early pubescent football playing 4th grade boy and then learning about a serving size, which is completely irrelevant, right, to either of them. And I'm thinking they've given up their agency now. So now I have so I introduced this topic all week long in session as I often do. Like, what is something real life that happened? I bring it into session, and all of my teenage clients remembered those lessons. And and every single one said, oh, those lessons are carried over all the way to mid middle school.

Amy Carlson [00:22:19]:

Until then, they show you the scary movies, documentaries about, you know, farm animals and all that stuff. But, but but they said we that information and it isn't necessarily that that triggers kids into an eating disorder right then. But later on, they have a reference point for an authority figure that told me this food was healthy, and this food is not healthy. So, immediately, I've given over agency. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Right? I've eaten this food, and and and now I'm an unhealthy person. So that think of what you're just describing.

Amy Carlson [00:22:56]:

Right? That narrative for you stretches way back. It just got triggered by driving to get labs.

Heather Creekmore [00:23:03]:

Right.

Amy Carlson [00:23:03]:

But somewhere in luck, I was at a dinner party and not with a lot of people I know, and somebody offered me a diet Coke, and I haven't had a diet Coke. And I was like, sure. Great. I'll drink that. It's lovely. I'm sat and visited with these young women for quite some time. And at the end, I said, well, that was a really refreshing diet Coke. I haven't had a diet Coke in a long time.

Amy Carlson [00:23:21]:

And they go and I said, it's kind of felt like I needed popcorn or pizza with that. These 2 girls looked at me like I had 3 heads. They said pizza? How dare you say the word pizza to us? And I said, I I and they said, we haven't had pizza in years. Mhmm. And I said, oh, I'm so sorry. I said, what pizza? And they said, you know, the gluten. I was so

Heather Creekmore [00:23:47]:

I wonder what they said. The gluten. The gluten.

Amy Carlson [00:23:50]:

Yeah. And I said, I'm so sorry. I said, I've been freed. I can still eat the gluten.

Heather Creekmore [00:23:57]:

Bryce was like, I can still eat the gluten.

Amy Carlson [00:24:01]:

And, of course, I don't know. Right? All the backstory except to say the agency is somebody told me I shouldn't. And, again, you know, I always say this. My mother-in-law has celiac disease. Real thing. Right? Definitely, there are people. But that agency is lost, and now even elementary school kids are saying, I don't even know.

Heather Creekmore [00:24:22]:

Right.

Amy Carlson [00:24:23]:

Am I healthy? Am I unhealthy? So if I wanna get it right with food, my goodness. I've gotta sift through files. Just like you said, a husband has to maybe. Right? I've gotta sift through files to go. If I wanna get it right with food, that's gonna take me a long time to figure that out because I don't know. So I'm basically getting it wrong.

Heather Creekmore [00:24:42]:

Yeah. A client of mine shared with me that her son about the same, like 4th, 5th grade, his assignment after doing the Bible Christian, homeschool curriculum where you had to circle the good foods and x out the bad foods. After that assignment, the next assignment was to create a 300 calorie lunch and try to make sure you were staying to your 300 calorie lunch.

Amy Carlson [00:25:13]:

Wait. Wait. Wait. This was just a normal school or this was in

Heather Creekmore [00:25:16]:

This was in kind of a home school university model program.

Amy Carlson [00:25:21]:

I'm sweating again. Why are you making me sweat today?

Heather Creekmore [00:25:24]:

At 300 and I was like, a 300 count. So so her so her poor her poor precious son is like, mom, I can't have chips if I'm gonna have yogurt because my sandwich and my yogurt add up to more than you know, so it's like they're putting them in this dilemma of of already, like, gotta keep it to a certain calorie number and their children.

Amy Carlson [00:25:47]:

Okay. Right? So so I here's my big question. How has any of that made any of us healthier?

Heather Creekmore [00:25:53]:

Right.

Amy Carlson [00:25:53]:

Eating disorders on the rise. Right? Weight related stuff is right. Feeling uncomfortable body, feeling body shame, right. All sorts of division around the table, not knowing who can have what when you're, you know, hosting a party. Like, oh, I'm sorry.

Heather Creekmore [00:26:08]:

I didn't

Amy Carlson [00:26:09]:

know. I'm not I have kids with no allergies. I know it's real. Right? It's like, how has that made us a community more together unity and especially as you know, my passion of being around the table? Yeah. How has that made us have increased fellowship and increased understanding? And for a baby, for a child to go, this is to help me know how to eat. I can promise you in 20 goo, very long 6, 7 years of practice, I have never ever 26 years of working in the field of eating disorders. I have never had somebody say, well, it was super helpful for me to learn early on that such and such. Right.

Heather Creekmore [00:26:55]:

Right.

Amy Carlson [00:26:55]:

That's how I knew. Right? How to listen to my body. And what is it like to say to a group of elementary school school kids? Guys, here's our assignment. I want you guys to go home and talk to your family, your parents, your grandmas, anyone. Anyone, your dad. And I want you to find a family recipe that you have loved, like and bring it in. And we're gonna talk about about family recipes that I made. So somebody says, right, in my family, I would have said, well, my grandma makes Swedish bread every Christmas.

Amy Carlson [00:27:32]:

And, oh, how does she make that? Well, it takes a lot of rising since she, she stands in the kitchen and she needs that bread and it smells like cardamom. And that's the only time of the year that I smell cardamom. And I know that that's like my, and I have the recipe from my great grandma all the way past down. Right. And I make it every Christmas and I give it out. So an elementary school kid might say, my grandma made Swedish bread or my, my dad always makes tamales at such and such, or my uncle smokes the Turkey at. Right. Okay.

Amy Carlson [00:28:01]:

Let's bring that in. And then let's talk about food in that context. Let's talk about food in that context. Right. What does that flavor taste like? How do you enjoy eating that? All of a sudden, one thing that we've done is we've broken down barriers that I may I didn't grow up eating tamales. Mhmm. I the first time I went to visit my husband's grandparents who lived in New Mexico, she served green chile egg casserole.

Heather Creekmore [00:28:29]:

Okay.

Amy Carlson [00:28:29]:

The spiciest thing I had ever had was plain salsa. Like, I was salsa.

Heather Creekmore [00:28:34]:

Right? Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, what is happening?

Amy Carlson [00:28:38]:

I don't think I can eat this. I mean, Chris was like, are you kidding me right now? Right? It it breaks down barriers for us to go, I don't know what a tamale is. Will you can you show me what a tamale? I've never seen one, or I've seen Swedish bread before. Let me bring you oh, wow. It's totally like this. Right? Dulcepan in in the their grandma may it's like, oh, wow. These are kind of the same thing. Yeah.

Amy Carlson [00:29:01]:

This is what we're talking about, food culture. Yeah. How do I listen to my body? How do I know when to stop? How would I, as a nutrition expert of working for 26 years in this field, know how many calories this boy needs at lunch? Mhmm. How would I possibly know that?

Heather Creekmore [00:29:18]:

Right.

Amy Carlson [00:29:19]:

I don't know that. Right. I don't know that. Yeah. I I I I've been working in this village for 6 years. I have no idea what he's eaten that morning. I have no idea how much he's played. I have no idea how many glu much glycogen storage he used on the playground yesterday.

Amy Carlson [00:29:35]:

Right. To suggest that a teacher has an understanding that he would need to know how to make a 300 calorie lunch is absurd.

Heather Creekmore [00:29:42]:

Oh, friend. This conversation is just getting started. Come back for more of this great conversation next time. Thanks for listening today. I hope something today has helped you stop comparing and start living. The compare to show is proud to be part of the Life Audio Podcast Network.

Amy Carlson [00:29:55]:

You have great Christian podcast with us today.