My Christian Husband Looks at Porn: How Do We Heal? Part 2/2 [Podcast Transcript]

Title: My Christian Husband Looks at Porn: How Do We Heal? Part 2/2

Podcast Date: February 21, 2025

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Description

Today Heather continues her conversation with Rosie Makinney from Fight for Love Ministries (https://www.fightforloveministries.org) about lust and pornography issues and how they affect marriages and a woman's body image issues. 

In today's episode, Heather and Rosie talk about control issues, the idol of sex, and what to do if you're dating someone who has confessed to a problem with pornography.

They also talk about what to do if you're in that shattered place of just finding out (or re-finding out) that your man is looking at pornography of any kind.

There is great hope and help for your marriage and your body image, even if a porn issue is part of your story. Visit Fight For Love if you need more help or support in navigating this difficult issues. 

Listen to Heather's first interview with Rosie where she shares her story here: https://omny.fm/shows/compared-to-who/what-to-do-when-your-husband-is-looking-at-porn

Learn more about Compared to Who? at https://www.improvebodyimage.com 

Transcript

Disclaimer: This transcript is AI-generated and has not been edited for accuracy or clarity.

Heather Creekmore [00:00:04]:

Do both men and women have control issues? Of course, we do. But how does that look different in marriage? And what happens when a guy is wrestling porn and lust, and a woman is wrestling body image issues. Today, my friend Rosie McKinney is back for the second part of our fantastic conversation. And this is where we went today. We went to control. We went to what happens when your dream of, you know, we call it a Cinderella dream, right, of being the one who's captured his heart, who has his full gaze. That dream has been shattered. What do you do then? We also talk about what to do if you're just dating someone and you find out that they have a porn issue.

Heather Creekmore [00:00:55]:

Do you keep going? Do you marry that person if you're engaged? How do you handle that? So there's a lot of great stuff in today's episode. And I tell you, especially at the end, like, Rosie hit a home run. The illustration at the end, you will love, appreciate, and cling to, so make sure you don't miss that. Hey. If you're brand new to the show, welcome. This is a place for women who are looking for real help and biblical encouragement around body image issues. We've got a ton of resources online. We do a resource kit every month.

Heather Creekmore [00:01:31]:

February's resource kit topic is marriage. So we've already curated for you a list of our best marriage resources. So you can just go to improvebodyimage.com and look for the resource kit tab. Also, we got another forty day journey starting in just about a month. That's where you'll read my forty day body image workbook with a group of women via Zoom once a week for six weeks. If you're looking to start your body freedom journey, there's no better place. It's super affordable, and it'll just encourage your heart. If you want your marriage to improve, if you want your body image to improve, hey.

Heather Creekmore [00:02:08]:

Start with this. I think it will, good, just change your life. Okay. We're glad you're here. Let's get to today's episode. Well, I mean, because it sounds like kinda what you're getting to is, right, sex has become an idol Yep. For these guys. Right? And so I feel like this was like I wrote this, like, the first couple pages of compared to who, you know, that came out a long time ago now.

Heather Creekmore [00:02:42]:

So I feel like I've studied this so much more now, but it just always felt like these two issues were just kinda like, I don't know, creating a circle that went round and round. Right? Because she's got, like, culture telling her she's supposed to look a certain way. So where she buys into a body image idol where she believes I will be happy and fulfilled if I look the certain way. And then he's bought into this pornified sex idol. Right? Believing, oh, well, I will be happy if I just, you know, get six all the time from this. Not because I think I don't know that most men recognize, like, the the need for to like, what'd you say? Like, varied experiences, taboo experiences, like, having, you know, having it be in the dark. Right? Like, you know, I think that guys kind of convince themselves to you know, and you kinda mentioned this earlier. Right? That, like, oh, I could replicate this at home.

Heather Creekmore [00:03:35]:

And I mean, I've talked to women who, you know, their husbands were watching Game of Thrones and asking them to act it out and then mad at them because they weren't acting it out correctly. And Yeah. And she's like, this doesn't feel right. I guess it doesn't feel like what this is supposed to be. And it's like, no. Because it's not what it's supposed to be. Yeah.

Rosie Makinney [00:03:54]:

If I can just go back to what you were talking about, it being an idol, sex being an idol, because that I've been thinking a lot about this. And what is an idol? I an idol is control. And women are definitely desperately wanting control over their lives. I want control over being safe, secure, desired, and and guys want I want all my needs to be fulfilled. I want I want to have control over my needs. And this whole process well, really, let's face it. The process you know, sanctification during life is about surrendering control, getting rid of our self reliance, and relying on God. That's the place that he wants you in a of a place of dependence where you're childlike depending on him.

Rosie Makinney [00:04:35]:

That's where the freedom is, not desperately clinging onto control. And we don't see it as control, but comparison and sex, you know, how we use it Mhmm. Really is an idol. And and God's saying, you know, the the wages of sin, idolatry being sin, are death. And so we we do all this stuff, and we get in a pickle and we start to feel here on Earth the the effects of the death. Like, our relationships are are destroyed. Our mental health is destroyed. Our our, you know, our our kids are getting infected, impacted.

Rosie Makinney [00:05:13]:

And we then we then go down all these routes of, like, sort of self esteem and building ourselves up when really the answer is less self esteem and more god esteem. And I know that sounds hard, but I say out of love because that's where the freedom is. The freedom is going, I have no control over my comparison outside of God. I have no control over my lust outside of God because I need to control. I need to control my environment. I don't trust God. I, you know, I believe, help my unbelief. That's the prayer.

Rosie Makinney [00:05:44]:

That's the prayer we all need. And that's where the freedom is. And that's not to say that you just, like, surrender this problem and you sit back and go, well, you know, there's nothing we can do about it. There absolutely is because God has provided the way and that's boundaries. When you put boundaries in your marriage saying, do you know what? This isn't happening in our relationship anymore. It's not good for you. It's not good for us. It's not good for our family.

Rosie Makinney [00:06:05]:

It's not good for society. It ends now. You're actually putting into action God's boundaries. God's boundaries. He said flee sexual immorality. Keep it within marriage. Like, God's boundaries are not restrictive and harmful and evil Right. Like the satanists would tell us Yeah.

Rosie Makinney [00:06:24]:

God is good. Not God is bad. God is good. Yeah. And and every time we try and go, nah. Nah. The boundaries are repressive. Yeah.

Rosie Makinney [00:06:32]:

No. That's where self fulfillment, self actualization is. It's evil. And it's just this upside down distortion. Mhmm. So I feel like the worlds are crazy, but we can we can make an impact by going, do you know what? In my little corner of of the world, I can take back my marriage from pornography. Can you take it back? You can't take it back. You can put you can put the boundaries that God wants you to put in to help him take your marriage back to pornography.

Heather Creekmore [00:07:01]:

Yeah. That's good. I went

Rosie Makinney [00:07:02]:

on a soapbox there. Sorry. Yeah. That

Heather Creekmore [00:07:04]:

was a good soapbox. So I wanna go back to about halfway through the soapbox, though, because what I found and I think that this this undermines women even more when they face this issue. Body image issues are about control because it's easier for me to feel in control when well, I mean, eating disorder issues, of course, are about control. But but it's easier for me to feel in control when I feel like I look a certain way. Mhmm. Like and I mean, I so I don't know if Yeah. How is I gonna go here today? Okay. I'll go here.

Heather Creekmore [00:07:39]:

So I I didn't have sex before I got married. K. But in some ways and and that doesn't mean I was pure. It means I didn't have sex before I got married. I I could have done better, according to God's standards. But in some ways, that gave me control. Right? Interesting. So I had these dating relationships where I'm not gonna have sex with you, but I felt wanted.

Heather Creekmore [00:08:08]:

I knew they wanted me. And so it was like that was it was a control dynamic. And I substituted that feeling of being wanted for actually being loved. Right. It's like those things got conflated in my brain. But then I got married and I didn't have that control anymore because, yeah, my husband wanted me, but it was, you know and then, I mean, he had his own porn porn struggle, porn history. Right? So it was very much like, you know, he's not chasing me down, trying to stare at me in the shower. Any of those, like, kind of I don't know.

Heather Creekmore [00:08:54]:

Now I think it's weird, but, like, I feel like those were, like, the Yeah. Kind of, like, notions I had about what it was gonna be like to be married. I was gonna be married to this guy who just, like, wanted me all the time and couldn't get enough of me. And and in some ways, it was a little bit that way in my dating relationships because of the control card plate. Right? And so I think that happens for women. Right? And then they uncover the porn and then they're like, well, I'm really out of control now because I can't keep up with all of that. And I don't have his attention and they don't even have a card to play. Right? Because he's doing whatever with porn, so it's not even that, like, I feel like, you know, I've got any I don't know.

Heather Creekmore [00:09:36]:

Control's the only words I can use again. Right? I don't know. You're thinking something. Jump in. I

Rosie Makinney [00:09:41]:

well, I'm thinking a couple of things. First of all, I'm thinking, I really appreciate your honesty. I really do. That's why I love you, Heather. And and you're going further than I am. Like, I'm like I'm sitting here, like, internally applauding you going right on. Like because it's hard to say to betrayed spouses, hurting women who are victims, you're a sinner too. It's you get your eyes scratched out.

Rosie Makinney [00:10:07]:

Believe me. Like, you don't wanna go there. You have to go really gently and sensitively and appropriately. But that's the bottom line. And and you've gone there. And and, you know, we do use sex as power. And when pornography comes in, we lose our power. Mhmm.

Rosie Makinney [00:10:21]:

But let's go back to the story of the snow queen. Like, he's got stuff in his eye. Yeah. So you don't want him to be looking at you Mhmm. Through that lens. You don't want him to be objectifying you. You don't want him to be thinking about you the way that he's thinking or not thinking Yeah. About the the, let's be honest, the body parts that he's watching.

Rosie Makinney [00:10:43]:

Mhmm. They're not people. They doesn't you know, they're just a, you know, homogenized, interchangeable selection of body parts.

Heather Creekmore [00:10:50]:

Mhmm.

Rosie Makinney [00:10:50]:

You don't want him to look at you like that. You want something completely different. So step let's stop competing, and let's strive for something completely new, which which is you going, I want you to love me the way I am. That's how I wanna be loved, not because I look a certain way. I I wanna look the best I can, you know, within the way that God designed me. Right. He didn't give that he didn't give me the shape because he hates me. Right.

Rosie Makinney [00:11:17]:

This is this is me. This is me. Right. You know?

Heather Creekmore [00:11:20]:

And but we objectify ourselves. And then the men that are conditioned to objectify women, we like just like, oh, please objectify me. Like, let me make sure I look good enough to be objectified. Right? Yeah.

Rosie Makinney [00:11:31]:

But it's scary.

Heather Creekmore [00:11:32]:

Yeah. It is. But you said something a second ago that kind of reminded it's going back to my journey. I did the so when I first found out, and I think I shared this before, but we got home from our honeymoon, and I tried to get on my husband's computer. And he had something called covenant eyes on there. And I was like, what is this? And he's like, well, that's, you know, my accountability with, you know, and told me who his accountability partners. I'm like, accountability for what? And then he told me that he had had, like, quite a long problem with porn. And this is our honeymoon.

Heather Creekmore [00:12:12]:

Mhmm. Not before we're married. This is our after honeymoon.

Rosie Makinney [00:12:15]:

Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:12:15]:

And I was devastated. And I mean, you know, Rosie, it's ridiculous how's just naive. I mean, I married

Rosie Makinney [00:12:23]:

Oh, ridiculous.

Heather Creekmore [00:12:24]:

I married a marine fighter pilot who didn't become a Christian until he was 27. Okay. So I don't like, I just assumed he would never look at that. I like, oh, it's ridiculous. Right? But, and so I was devastated and I did oh, it's embarrassing all the stuff I did. Like but but my tactic was I was gonna make him feel really bad. And so I was like, what you need to do is just put on your computer a picture of me with a dagger through my heart so that every time you go on your computer, you'll see just how much you're hurting me. And you're like, I over the top, like, dramatic things like that.

Heather Creekmore [00:13:09]:

And it wasn't really until I was able to recognize, oh, I have a sin struggle too. Not that my sin struggle was my dagger on the heart. I there might have been some validity to that idea. I don't know. But I think so. But but then I was able to have compassion

Rosie Makinney [00:13:30]:

Mhmm.

Heather Creekmore [00:13:31]:

For him and some grace for him. And not that, you know, like, boundaries obviously important. Right? But in our situation, he was a little further, you know, he wasn't actively in it. And so for us, it was more just like me having Grace said, oh, I married a sinner. And it's not gonna help for me to just keep being like sinner, sinner, sinner, sinner, sinner. Like, how do I be on his team and be like, hey. Well, if this comes up, like, you need help. Like, this let's you know, who can we get to support you? Who can we get to support me? Because I'm not a good accountability partner for you.

Heather Creekmore [00:14:11]:

Like, I don't have what it takes to help you through this.

Rosie Makinney [00:14:15]:

No. You don't.

Heather Creekmore [00:14:16]:

How can how can I get help for me and you get help for you so that we can, you know, come together on this? So anyway, I I just didn't wanna gloss right over the fact that I do think coming into it and just being like, that's imperfect, and he has a problem.

Rosie Makinney [00:14:33]:

Well, there were two two different issues, and you're absolutely right. And and I think there was validity to you and you standing over going, you know, just put a picture of, you know, you putting a dagger in my heart because that's what it feels like. That's that's true. That is betrayal. It is true. So I I I hats off to you there. I mean, expressing your feelings, giving him the medicine he needs. This is this is impacting me.

Rosie Makinney [00:14:55]:

So you're absolutely right. In that sense, it it does help you develop compassion when you realize that you're a sin or two broken in a different way. However, where this gets complicated, because that would be great if it was straightforward, But not everybody has the situation where on their honeymoon, their husband comes forward and goes, this has been a struggle, but I'm taking care of it, and I don't want it. Mhmm. And I'm being open and transparent with you. That that is it's it's really hard. I've been there. I got that T shirt too.

Rosie Makinney [00:15:22]:

Mhmm. But it's not the same as being lied to deliberately lied to for twenty years, thirty years, five years Yeah. And made to feel it's your fault and minimized and gaslit. Yeah. Then you've got a whole other layer of hurt and betrayal and manipulation. And so so looking at your own stuff and saying I'm a sinner too comes much later because it's just not humanly possible because you are so hurt, and the damage is real. So it's why it really helps to get some help and some support and some perspective where you are on that scale because I would tell someone very differently, like, sort of, like, who came to me for, like, premarital counseling, and he'd got a porn problem to someone who's been dealing with this for thirty years Yeah. And has been totally beaten down and destroyed by it and told that she needs to do this and was told to get a boob job and was told to do this and has been putting herself through this stuff and feeling blamed and inadequate.

Rosie Makinney [00:16:24]:

Mhmm. That is devastating. It's absolutely devastating, and that's where, you know, betrayal trauma is a real thing. And especially if you don't know it's hard if you know about it because then you try and manage that that, what did I call it, emotional dissonance, that that sort of, like, the two things at the same time. But it's hard if you don't know about it because your entire world has has proved to be not what you thought it was, and that is utterly destabilizing. Yeah. So wherever you're coming into this, Jenny, wherever you are listening to this right now, you've got unique challenges. There is a commonality, like, recognizing your own sinful stuff is gonna help, But also you have got trauma Yeah.

Rosie Makinney [00:17:13]:

And betrayal that needs healing. And also in order for the relationship to heal, he has to, a, turn the boat around, and he has to make amends. He has to rebuild the trust. That's his job. It's not your job to rebuild the trust. You didn't break it.

Heather Creekmore [00:17:31]:

Yeah.

Rosie Makinney [00:17:32]:

You didn't break it. You were trying your hardest to fulfill a need that could never be filled by you. Mhmm. And that was really abusive either intentionally or unintentionally depending on his aware a level of awareness.

Heather Creekmore [00:17:45]:

Yeah.

Rosie Makinney [00:17:45]:

And then there are co occurring, issues. You might have narcissism thrown in there. You might have, you know, neurotypical issues thrown in there. It it gets complicated. So I don't want people to listen to this thinking, well, it's simplistic. I just need to do this, this, and this. My my biggest piece of advice is, like, get some help. Get some help.

Rosie Makinney [00:18:04]:

Yeah. Like, just someone to walk alongside you and go, let's look at the pieces of your story. What is going on? Because wives need hope, but they need clarity. Mhmm. Like, have you got a guy who is is even willing to go down a healing journey. And if he is on the healing journey, are you seeing green flags, or are you just painting those red flags green? Mhmm. The whole thing is is murky, and that's why don't do it on your own. Don't do it on your own.

Rosie Makinney [00:18:33]:

It's too there's too many pitfalls, but it is it is totally possible. And just having your sisters around you to to cry with you, to support you, to cheerlead you, to preach the gospel at you when you've got nothing else Mhmm. Is is the way out of this. And it's worth fighting for because you're already in pain. You're already in a lot of pain. It's just you're not dealing with it. It's unproductive praying pain, so let's make it productive by ripping the lid off and having a look.

Heather Creekmore [00:19:08]:

Yeah. That's good. Okay. So I get this question a lot, and I never know exactly what to say because part well, I'll ask the question, then I'll give you my I I get questions from women who are just dating someone Mhmm. Or maybe engaged. But before marriage, and they find out he has a porn problem. And a little part of me is like, oh goodness. Like, I mean, it's so prevalent.

Heather Creekmore [00:19:34]:

Like, I can't tell you. Like, you should break up with him and find someone who's ever looked at porn. I guess I

Rosie Makinney [00:19:41]:

don't know

Heather Creekmore [00:19:41]:

that that's possible. Right? I mean, is that just fatalistic of me? But so but what do you what would what would you tell that younger I mean, she doesn't have to be younger, but that that woman who's dating a guy and just found this out, so she's not committed yet. What should she do?

Rosie Makinney [00:19:57]:

You need to, a, you need to know know the the what you're dealing with. Mhmm. Like, is this I look at it once every two weeks, and I feel bad about this, or am I looking at this three, five times a

Heather Creekmore [00:20:10]:

day? Mhmm.

Rosie Makinney [00:20:11]:

How far is it escalated?

Heather Creekmore [00:20:13]:

Mhmm.

Rosie Makinney [00:20:13]:

Are we going to massage partners? Are we, you know, are we still a virgin, but we're just, you know, doing a lot of other stuff? Mhmm. Like like, what what what are you dealing with? Because, you know, a struggle with pornography can look men look very different, and it's gonna you need to know that. So you you need to know if you're if he's willing to give you a full disclosure so you know what you're dealing with. And then is he capable, and is he willing to be a % rigorously honest going forward? Because that's how he'll stay sober. That's how he'll stay on the right path. And because, you know, if I mean, wouldn't it be wonderful if, you know, my husband or the husbands of the ladies that I work with had, in their dating relationship, somebody who said, you do realize this is like, we're just kicking the can down the road here. Whether you're with me or whether you're with somebody else, you have to get a handle on this. It's gonna take you down.

Rosie Makinney [00:21:15]:

It's gonna take you down and totally prevent you from all the things that you actually want to to do and achieve with your life. Yeah. You do know that, don't you? Mhmm. Okay. So, you know, I I want to know a little bit more about what we're dealing with and what's your attitude towards it before I can continue to pursue my relationship with you and see what their attitude is. If you're getting pushed back at that stage, walk away.

Heather Creekmore [00:21:46]:

Mhmm.

Rosie Makinney [00:21:47]:

If it's really serious, then I would I would I would slip into a friend zone. Like, but you need I need to see if if you can can sort this out first. Yeah. If it's in the dating if you're in the engaged thing, I'd say, woah. Let's slow this down. Mhmm. Because you want to walk down the aisle knowing who you've married Mhmm. And so does he.

Rosie Makinney [00:22:13]:

Mhmm. And he's never gonna feel fully known and fully loved by you if you don't fully know and fully love him. Mhmm. And, also, you're never gonna feel fully known and fully loved by him if you don't express how much his looking at other women really hurts you.

Heather Creekmore [00:22:28]:

Yeah.

Rosie Makinney [00:22:28]:

And can he handle that? So if you find out before, brilliant. Let's sort it out because you're gonna be sorting it out at some stage.

Heather Creekmore [00:22:37]:

Mhmm. Yeah.

Rosie Makinney [00:22:38]:

You're gonna be sorting it out. And and and, I mean, my hope, my prayer is that we have a change of attitude in the church and that guys are actually, we stop we stop whitewashing this issue. We stop, like, tiptoeing around it. Oh, this is a struggle, and we don't really know what to do, but, you know, oh, thanks for sharing. Come back next week. Like, it is possible to be free of this. And come on, guys. We can do this.

Rosie Makinney [00:23:03]:

We can do this. Let's let's dig in hard. Yeah. Because at the moment, the women are having to do the heavy lifting and do the heavy boundaries. Yeah. And that tends to be society, doesn't it? It's like, you know, women, you you need to control the guy's lust, and it's like, let's let's also balance it. It's like it's like the the submission thing. Like like, if wives submit harder, then the their men will rise.

Rosie Makinney [00:23:26]:

And it's like, well, you let's ask the men to step up

Heather Creekmore [00:23:31]:

as well. Well, the men need to if they're some like, if a wife's submitting harder than that, only it should be because he's submitting harder to Jesus, and it's easier for her to submit harder because he's so sold out for whatever. And if he's in a porn issue, then he's not submitting to Jesus. Like, he's not submitting to holiness. So it's like a different dynamic.

Rosie Makinney [00:23:51]:

And because we're not talking to the guys about that, we we just we just focus on the women. That seems to be, you know, like, you submit harder, and then that will that will somehow create an environment where he wants to step up. Yeah. How does that work out? Yeah. It doesn't work with my teen. You know? It doesn't work with my husband. You know, you have to own your own sin issues. Yeah.

Rosie Makinney [00:24:10]:

But it's having the unintended effect of women going, right, I actually need to take over. And so we're being pushed towards this sort of, you know, hard line feminist. We don't even need the men. And it's like, well, let's just stop focusing on the women. And actually, Yeah. Yes. We need help and we need but actually, let's let's talk to guys as if they're men, not teenagers who can't cope.

Heather Creekmore [00:24:32]:

Call yeah. Call them call them with something greater. Yeah.

Rosie Makinney [00:24:34]:

You you can do it. You absolutely can. And that's that that's how I think a a wife best loves her husband is when she goes, you can be free of this. I know you can Mhmm. With the right help, and I want you to be, and I want you to be all that you can be. Yeah. And I'm gonna love you enough to put boundaries in.

Heather Creekmore [00:24:50]:

Right. Right. And I because he wants that encouragement too. Like, I mean, that I think that's the nicest thing she could say to him. Yeah. Right? Is that I I believe in you. Yeah. Right? I know you can do this.

Heather Creekmore [00:25:04]:

Not like, it's okay that you do this, but, no, I believe in you. I know you can be free. I know you can stop this sin pattern.

Rosie Makinney [00:25:10]:

So when we and and then when you look at it like that as opposed to, like, oh, I know you have this struggle, maybe I should just go down the gym. It's like, how is that helping him? Like, you know?

Heather Creekmore [00:25:21]:

I love the way he said it. I'm kidding. Go go go down. I can't even imitate you well. Go down the gym. I guess just I love that. That's definitely gonna be like the Instagram. No.

Heather Creekmore [00:25:36]:

It's so good. Okay. But okay. Here's where we're gonna end. Well, I mean, I want you to tell everyone where they can connect with you and get help and resources and all those things. So that's actually where we're in. But it's just so devastating. Like, it just feels like your ideal world, not that anyone really believes they're living in their ideal world.

Heather Creekmore [00:26:00]:

Right? But it's just so world crushing. It's it's the Cinderella dream, like, stomped on by muddy elephants to where it's flat on the ground, And that's hard to come back from. I mean, and and and I think at every level, right? Like, even if you're just dating a guy and you find out he's looking at porn, you're like, oh, that hurts. Right? And then, I mean, of course, like the thirty year marriage, you you just meant like, woah. Like, that hurts so much heavier way. Right? But, like, where where do you start when you're trying to pick yourself back up or, well, really letting the holy spirit pick you back up, but where do you start?

Rosie Makinney [00:26:44]:

I love that you brought Cinderella up. Like, I it's funny. I do this work, but I'm such a romantic at heart. Like, have you seen the Slipper and the Rose?

Heather Creekmore [00:26:54]:

No.

Rosie Makinney [00:26:55]:

Oh, it's the old musical version of Cinderella with Richard Chamberlain.

Heather Creekmore [00:26:59]:

Okay.

Rosie Makinney [00:26:59]:

Love it. I love it. I think there's something holy about the Cinderella story.

Heather Creekmore [00:27:05]:

Mhmm.

Rosie Makinney [00:27:06]:

He didn't know her. He chose her. He fell in love with her. He pursued her. That's the story of God with us. She didn't do anything to deserve that. Yes. She was beautiful, but we're beautiful in God's eyes Mhmm.

Rosie Makinney [00:27:18]:

You know, because of what Jesus did. Like, he pursues us. I think there's something holy in that story, and there's something why do we love romances? Why do we watch Pride and Bridge less endlessly? Probably more times than is good for us. Us. Why do we do it? Because I think there is there is something you know, we're we're made in the we're made in the image of of god. We, you know, we're designed to be to be known and loved. We really are. There's something so how do we get over that fatal crushing? And that's where the gospel comes in because the gospel is we we haven't got a Cinderella story here on Earth.

Rosie Makinney [00:27:53]:

We haven't even got Beauty and the Beast where we've married a beast, but we're still Belle. We're still Belle. We're still, you know, singing at small animals. We're still amazing. The truth is Shrek. The truth is Shrek. You've married an ogre, and you know what? You're an ogre too. And both of you need a savior.

Rosie Makinney [00:28:11]:

That's the gospel. The gospel is Shrek, and the gospel is full of joy and life and freedom just like Shrek is the best movie ever. You know? And, you know, we don't raise perfect children. We raise donkey dragons. Like, you look you'll never see that film again in the same way, but that is the story. And don't you want Fiona and Shrek's relationship rather than Cinderella? Yeah. It's fun. It's Yeah.

Rosie Makinney [00:28:38]:

It's full of life and realness and freedom. And, you know, and that's that's what I want to you know, if I can leave anybody with a with an image of, like, you want Shrek's relationship. And it does hurt that we're not Cinderella, but I do believe one day Mhmm. We will go. That longing will be fulfilled. Mhmm. Amen. We have been pursued.

Rosie Makinney [00:29:03]:

We have been. But down here, we're all ogres. Mhmm. We're all ogres. And isn't it nice that you're not the only one? Because we all know we're not the only one, and a boob job ain't gonna cut it.

Heather Creekmore [00:29:16]:

Yeah.

Rosie Makinney [00:29:17]:

You know, the the freedom is and I'm not I'm not please hear me. I'm not minimizing the pain of body image issues. Mhmm.

Heather Creekmore [00:29:24]:

I don't want people to hate

Rosie Makinney [00:29:25]:

me in your audience. But there is so much freedom when when it just is is slotted into the truth of we're living in a world of deception, and this is deception that's being put on you hard. And it's not your fault because you your pain is real. We have not got Cinderella down here. We haven't. And so we have to be constantly vigilant, constantly watchful for the ways that the world is trying to turn our head and turn us inwards instead of upwards.

Heather Creekmore [00:30:01]:

Yeah. Yeah. That's you You knocked it out of the park. That was the perfect answer. I love that. I love that. Okay. Where does she start? She was like, yep.

Heather Creekmore [00:30:12]:

You described me. I need help. How do we connect with you? What do you offer? I know they should listen to your podcast for sure. I've had lots and lots and lots of women tell me listening to your episodes really helped them. So give us all the stuff.

Rosie Makinney [00:30:28]:

Yeah. Go check out the website, fightforloveministries.org. There, you can find links to the podcast. And with the podcast, go back to the beginning and listen to the first sixteen, because I have sort of a panel format there, and they're wonderful ladies there who invite you into their journey. And that's the best way to stop feeling so alone and so isolated is just to hear the other women talking honestly about what it's like and their fears and their hopes and their dreams and their experiences. Yep. The website, there's, frequently asked questions, which answer a lot of, like, what do I do now? Blah blah blah blah. Where can I get help? We've got a list of recommended resources.

Rosie Makinney [00:31:08]:

Got a link to my book there, which is Yep. Which is affectionately known as the idiot's guide to porn addiction for Christian women, which will get you up to speed quickly. Like, you don't need to go and read the books on, you know, neurobiology. I've done that for you. You don't need to read the books on what porn does to relationships. I've done that for you and put it in a, you know, a quick, easy format so you can feel educated and confident, and then sort of taking apart some of the biblical scripture about boundaries just to make you feel like, yeah. Right. I get this.

Rosie Makinney [00:31:38]:

I can do this. You got it. And, also, there's a chapter on protecting kids and if you struggle yourself. Mhmm. What else? There's a devotional in there and a link to our Facebook community, which is where all the all the good stuff happens out of sight in a private community where you can come and ask questions and just get loved on and prayed for with people who get it.

Heather Creekmore [00:32:03]:

Awesome. Awesome. So fightforloveministries.org, and I'll put that link in the show notes. Rosie, thank you. Thank you. Appreciate you being here today, bringing it Bringing the truth, the hope in the South.

Rosie Makinney [00:32:17]:

It's it's been it's been wonderful to talk to you, Heather. You are you are you make me think harder.

Heather Creekmore [00:32:23]:

Yep. You know? That's fun for me. No. Well, no. I appreciate you being here, and thank you for watching or listening today. I hope something today has helped you stop comparing and start living. Bye bye.